Chrissaf Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 The supplied speaker is not very good anyway, so just change the speaker for one that will fit......no model cutting needed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I have just taken delivery of my R3711 Princess Marie Louise and I am very pleased with the model, however, I do find it very frustrating in this day and age that when you buy a DCC ready model together with a R7147 TTS Sound Decoder (I could not find a sound fitted version for sale) then the sound Decoder does not fit the space for which it is intended without some serious remodelling of the innards of the tender .... I was lucky that I had a spare DCC decoder so I can at least run a silent version before I find someone who is brave enough to show one how to cut up a new engine costing in excess of £175.00 .... the supplied speaker does not even fit in the aperture in the tender .... very frustrating and I think Hornby should make sure that their supplied speakers fit correctly in the intended spaces ... not good enough Hornby ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Duchess similar if not identical inside. /media/tinymce_upload/99fb4481da8bce345836505c383c81d3.JPG /media/tinymce_upload/4742249a4025da8be99da691bb26c796.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Either buy a sugar cube one from YouChoos or similar supplier, or go on to EBAY and there is someone selling iphone speakers which are small and very good. I am surprised the original speaker doesn't fit though, surely they are using the same tender as the Duchess class, which although you have to cut a slot (speaker fits but no room to pass through the wires) will actually accept the round speaker. Chrissaf has the better idea though, get a smaller and better speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Having looked at the photos, I am sure that they weren't there when I first replied, it must have been the A4 where I had to file a slot. I think with the Duchess I took the sugar cube speaker approach. I have complained about this before, why put in all that design effort to achieve something that doesn't fit, but then I do get the thing that electronics are not really Hornby's thing. I suppose it could be that they designed the enclosure and then further down the line someone specified a different speaker, where I worked a buyer changed the plastic for a fuel tank and forgot to ask if it was petrol resistant.. A sugar cube will fit in the same hole and probably be less likely to short out against the weight (terminals are smaller). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingboy Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Thanks everyone for the advice - and i think I will go the sugar cube route .... I really put this on as I think that it in this day and age speakers etc should just fit in a space provided and be simple to fit ... very frustrating especially as this is a new totally uptodate re-engineered model and they sell the TTS sound package 'to fit' with no fitting instructions either - if they dont just 'drop' in there should be guidlines / instructions to follow otherwise one can mess the whole thing up .... again many thanks for all the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 In my view the TTS decoder is such incredible value that it should come without a speaker and leave it to the purchaser to fit a speaker of their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I routinely throw away the Hornby speaker and use a sugar-cube speaker instead - much better. Worth noting that the TTS speakers are often supplied in a plastic housing - it‘s needed if fitting to a non TTS ready loco but the housing must be discarded to allow it to fit in the moulded space now provided in the tender. Look at Rob’s phots and you will see no extra housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I agree with all the comments, Chrissaf mentioned ages ago that Hornby found it cheaper to include the speaker. It is useful to check that it all works before you change the speaker. On some of the Bachmann models it does mention how to fit the speaker, but half the time the speakers you can buy don't quite fit in the space. In Hornby's case, there are no instructions, but have obviously gone to a lot of effort to put a mounting point in the tender. If it is any consolation, I fitted sound to a Bachmann DMU, the instructions told me to virtually take the loco apart to fit the speaker at the bottom behind the front bogie. I tried several speakers and found the position suggested was difficult to get to and fouled the motor drive. Eventually, I bought an iphone speaker off EBay, it fitted at the top above the PCB without the need to take anything apart, which meant I had wasted several hours taking it apart.I have got to admit though the Hornby TTS decoders are really good value for the money, ok they are not as good as the expensive ones, but if you just want some sound they are perfect. I have many of my locos fitted with them, I only wish Hornby would do more, but I can see why. They are not that much more than a decent decoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Chrissaf mentioned ages ago that Hornby found it cheaper to include the speaker..News to me......are you sure I said that.....I have no recollection......I have definitely said that Hornby supply a cheap speaker....but that is now something completely different. 😀 /media/tinymce_upload/820c8fad603a5ab183847c4369cd0eae.jpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 These will be the instructions that you say Hornby do not provide.They are hidden in plain view on the web site, accessible from many TTS retro kit product pages. This link came from R8106 page.https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/media/Fitting_a_Decoder.pdf You may note that there are several references in the broadbrush guide to modelling skills being required, which has been stated time and again on the forum where TTS retro kits are concerned. You will also note that the Duchess tender weight has a square hole to allow fitment of a cube speaker if you wish. If Hornby didn’t provide a speaker they would be slated, but they do and they still get stick. No way they can win with those odds. Why don’t you put your ideal solution into the Wishlist section, where Hornby may actually see it and possibly act upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Sorry Chrissaf I thought it was you, somebody definitely said that. As for getting slated for not supplying a speaker, virtually every other sound manufacturer I have bought a unit from, requires you buy the speaker separate. I think the system for the Thumper, I bought off Howes might have come with a speaker, but all the rest I have had to buy a separate speaker. I assume Hornby as it mass produces these, adds the speaker to make end of line testing easier. The more expensive units are generally loaded with the right sound data, on a one off basis, basically as they are ordered so they can easily test with their own speaker. The other thing is Hornby TTS decoders are sold by any Hornby approved Model Shop, whereas the more expensive ones are sold by specialist Model Shops, so a wired on speaker makes it easier to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I get the opinion the design of the speaker enclosure in the tender must be made by different designers, the one for the Schools class works ok, the one for the A4 would be ok if they thought about how to bring the wires through with the speaker in situ, the Duchess, why did they bother and it seems the Princess is the same. This is not a criticism but if you are going to spend time designing something then do it properly otherwise don't bother, it wastes time and effort (and money) designing something that does not work. In the case of the Princess and Duchess they might just as well just put a normal weight in the tender and left it up to the buyer where they put the speaker, which is effectively what we are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingboy Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Just to update you all - I bought a selection of Sugarcube speakers from YouChoos - I used the Sugarcube 7 speaker - two tiny solders and then two minutes later we were up and running - no need to mess around in the tender / no cutting / just switched the decoders and thats was it - thanks everybody for you valuable advice - much appreciated PS I dont think that the 'instructions' sent in the sound decoder are adequate - no diagrams etc etc I shall cut off the speakers in future and use suagrcubes or similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 To be fair to Hornby their retro-kit instructions state in words general advice for various loco types and product ranges. They also say modelling skills may be required. They also talk to replacing the speaker. Their warranty covers damage by user finger trouble during installation. To provide a diagram to cover every loco installation variant would be an impossible task. I know because I wrote an advanced guide to installing TTS decoders (awaiting being published on the forum) and all you can give are vague examples of the various different loco types and configurations. Your best bet is to pull the service sheet for your particular loco, compare it with the service sheet for a similar TTS equipped loco and work it out for yourself how best to install the kit. That would be using the modelling skills mentioned in the instructiond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 I am sorry RAF96, I do not agree Hornby could include the data on how to fit TTS decoders with the Loco, as Bachmann do on some of their models. Obviously where you are trying to fit it in older models where it was not intended, then yes it is fair there are no installation instructions. In the case of several of their newer models where they have designed the tender to accept the TTS speaker, then why not list in the Loco instructions how to do it. If not save the design effort and don't bother modelling the weight to take a speaker and assume everyone is going to fit a sugar cube or iphone speaker. As I have said on many occasions if you cannot do the job properly, don't bother. As for writing user documentation, this is what stops the customer breaking the product, ok when Hornby first started, you would buy another one, today you send it back on warranty and the company loses money. This is from a person that wrote mainly user manuals for complex software programs, if anything it stops people phoning you up over simple matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Got to disagree with you again Colin. The maintenance sheet could include a diagram of TTS fitted configuration where they show the decoder and standard speaker, but they ain’t going to include detailed instructions on how to install it, same as they don’t tell you how to fit decoders, just show a picture of the socket and where it is and how to access it. They will never provide detailed installation instructions for each and every model variant as it would be a mammoth task for a minority of folk. What happens if they change the speaker design, then all those previous sheets and your hoped for instructions are suddenly wrong. Trust me it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Actually they do tell you how to fit the decoder in that they tell you to make sure where the number 1 pin goes. As for the speaker, if they change the design then it will have a new part number so of course it won't fit into an older model, it is a bit like me fitting the new Princess TTS decoder into my old version. The old version was not meant to have TTS so it is up to the individual how to fit it. If you look at the Princess they have just retooled to take the new TTS decoder as they released them at the same time, so for the current model there is no reason not to have fitting instructions that apply to the current TTS model, with the requirement that you use the correct size speaker. I have just bought a Bachmann class 150 DMU, it tells you in the instructions where to fit the speaker, now admittedly there is an easier way to fit it if you use an iphone one, but if you use the speaker Bachmann recommend then it will fit as they intended. Dapol do the same. As I say the instructions for fitting should be an appendix for the Loco instructions, lets face it, it is only relevant on steam locos where they have made a particular enclosure in the tender, so it would help if they explained how they intended for you to fit it (on some of them I would really like to know what they intended). Perhaps I am different, I come from an enviroment that if you don't tell them how to fit it, they break it. Anyway not my issue, I know exactly how to fit them, it is just that a lot of people are not that skilled and need help and surely that should come from Hornby. From Hornby's point of view believe it or not, from my experience, when you write instructions it focuses the mind on whether you have designed the product properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 No point whingeing at me Colin.If you feel so strongly about it then write to Hornby Customer Care for the attention of whosoever Department you think should be writing these dedicated instructional appendices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creilly81 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 It's actually worth noting that i have one of the latest Princess release's R3709 Princess Elizabeth which i also bought the relevant TTS sound decoder for, and fitted it with the standard 28mm round speaker without a problem. Providing you mount the speaker so that the wire contacts are shown in the cut out of the tender weight, and you pop a strip of insulation over the contacts before screwing the weight back down, it will fit perfectly - ample room in fact.I'd be interested to know how you tried to mount it and came to the conclusion it wouldn't fit without a major modification to the tender chassis.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Actually, I wasn't whingeing, it is just a suggestion. I tend to use sugarcube or iphone speakers as they are supposedly better, definitely easier to fit and they do sound a bit better, so I usually have few issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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