Katygee Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I have 3 Hornby locos which are all tender driven.2 run well. The 3rd doesn't.If I e tender from the one that doesn't work to an engine from one or either of the others it runs.If I attaché one of the tenders from either of those running onto the engine of the one that doesn't run it runs with either of the other tenders.any suggestion?Thanks Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 The duff tender needs servicing. The locos just act as extra power pickups which is why they work with the good tenders. Just make sure the locos push along without any resistance. They will benefit from a sparing lubrication of the moving parts. Use proper model oil or sewing machine oil, not 3-in-1 or WD-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katygee Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 WThank you. I have replaced brushes and springs and cleaned armature I will try oiling and let you know if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Sound like some thing simulair what happen to me back in 2018!!! Had an F. S. Tender that wouldn't work unless I had changed it with another Loco Tender!!! Click here to see why :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Get a multimeter and check that there is resistance between each winding of the armature, the thin wires have a habit of snapping off. My ringfield based HST was very slow until someone suggested the fault, and sure enough that is what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katygee Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 The duff tender needs servicing. The locos just act as extra power pickups which is why they work with the good tenders. Just make sure the locos push along without any resistance. They will benefit from a sparing lubrication of the moving parts. Use proper model oil or sewing machine oil, not 3-in-1 or WD-40.Thanks but no improvement. It looks like I change the tender cover - bad one is blue good ones green.it doesn't explain why but it does give me three running locos. Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Your original post deleted Kaygee as you used the blue button and didn’t add anything. Just scroll down and reply in the white box and use the green button to reply. You say changing the tender cover fixes the problem. That suggests the tender body is moving a wire and causing the failure. Have a look to see if there is a wire that is being displaced when you put the top back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katygee Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Sound like some thing simulair what happen to me back in 2018!!! Had an F. S. Tender that wouldn't work unless I had changed it with another Loco Tender!!! Click here to see why :- Thank you Jimyjames. I watched video and it did seem to be the same problem. I am confused because you had your FS running without a tender. The only on that I have seen is tender Driven. I missed the end of video where you were about to explain what the solution was when an advert popped up and I got disconnected. Can you just let me know the solution. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 JJs videos can be a bit hit and miss. He tries hard bless him. You can not run a tender drive loco without a tender as the motor is in the tender. The loco is purely free running, i.e. little more than a wagon or coach, just looks like a loco. What you are seeing in the video is probably a loco drive loco, which can run without a tender if the loco has pickups on both sides. Some models use the loco to pickup from one rail and the tender to pickup from the other rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Ketygee Jimyjames loco is loco driven, yours from what I can gather is tender driven. So Jimyjames is leading you up a blind alley, your fault is nothing like his. Jimyjames has got issues with the additional pickups in the tender that are in parallel with the ones in the loco. From what I have read so far, you basically have issues with the motor in your tender. Take the tender apart check that the brushes are the right length, check the amature has good windings make sure there is not excessive oil or dirt on the axles of the tender. Finally check there isn't a build up of grim on the tender wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Katgee said she (?) already did all that Colin. It seems to be putting the lid back on is displacing a wire and killing the drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katygee Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Thank youI will try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Reading the original post... There are three tender drive locos, with three tenders. Two run well as they are. One doesn't. Not specified if not running at all, or just not running well. If he takes the tender from the not running loco, and couples it to either of the other two locos, the non running tender runs. If he takes either of the two tenders from the running well locos, and couples that to the non running loco, they both run with the "non running" loco. So, a bit mysterious. That's why Keith has said that swapping the non running tender body with the body off one of the two running well locos, so that all three tender bodies match the three locos, all three then run. At least, that's how I read it. Still strange how one tender chassis and motor doesn't like one loco... Unless there is a mismatch, and the non running loco was connected to the wrong tender chassis? There are two versions of the tender drive locos... One type has the right hand loco wheels picking up the current. The other type has the left hand loco wheels picking up the current. I can't remember which one is which, but I think it was the earlier locos that used pick up wipers that had the loco pick up on the opposite side to the later locos that had no pick up wipers, and a live chassis. If an early tender were connected to a later loco, then a short circuit could be caused. This would trip out the controller, so the loco wouldn't run. Just a thought! Original post...I have 3 Hornby locos which are all tender driven. 2 run well. The 3rd doesn't. If I e tender from the one that doesn't work to an engine from one or either of the others it runs. If I attaché one of the tenders from either of those running onto the engine of the one that doesn't run it runs with either of the other tenders. any suggestion? Thanks Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 @ Ketygee :-Hello - I've been told that I have issue with the tender b/c there some thing wrong with the 'pick up' in the tender & when the tender moves - it shorts out & either it has been wired up wrongly or are touching the chassis sometimes.& what I initially done was, got some masking tape & put it over both the connectors on the F. S. - see Photo :- /media/tinymce_upload/8b0fb237e66feb127be36599ba35ba08.JPGWhat you can see in the photo from left to Right is Clan Line Merchant Navey Class then the Tender for the F. S. then the F. S. itself, then the Tender for the C. L. M. N. C. - as you can see I've put masking tape over both connection on the F. S. & it's Tender to stop the shorting out!!! & that does seem to work 😀 Initially I thought (if you can make it to all the way to the end of my Vid) - Remember the Theme Tune to "THE TWILIGHT ZONE"??? THAT 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 @ Raf :- JJs videos can be a bit hit and miss. He tries hard bless him.Thank you Raf 😀 You can not run a tender drive loco without a tender as the motor is in the tender. The loco is purely free running.Yeah I've got 'James the Red Engine' from 'Thaomas the Tank Engine' & I think you can guess why!!! Any way He is Tender Driven (& the only Loco like that what I've got) & the Wheels on 'James' are Free wheeling!!! What you are seeing in the video is probably a loco drive loco, which can run without a tender if the loco has pickups on both sides.Yeah both of my Loco is the above Photo are Loco driven but I think that both the Tenders help with the pick up - but the F. S. Tender is suspiciously heavier than the other Tender in the photo - may be it just has some extra weight in it perhaps???Some models use the loco to pickup from one rail and the tender to pickup from the other rail. I did not know that - I learn a lot from you Lovely lot!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Jimyjames Some of the railroad based locos, that are loco driven use a a ringfield based "tender" driven tender, but with the motor and gears removed. So effectively the tender will be quite heavy. I gather Hornby do it as it saves designing a new tender. It is a late designed ringfield motor with pickups on the wheels, the earlier ones just used the axles, so it is quite easy for a pickup to accidentally short again the chassis. I have a Railroad type Mallard that has loco drive and a tender that has the ringfield drive chassis but no gears or motor. On this type of tender as someone has said the pickup of power is reversed. If look at the teder from the front, on an early ringfield motor the gear wheels on the left are insulated from chassis and the right hand wheels connect to chassis. On the the later type the left hand gear wheels are connected to chassis via pickups and the right hand wheels are insulated. Your tender should have insulated wheels both sides. If someone has changed the wheels to the early type, then that might be your issue. On the original subject, have you checked there is a good connection between the tender coupling pin and the wire to the motor, this a crimp connection and can become loose, meaning it becomes high resistance or not connected at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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