Beginner. Help dcc problem

[Abeginner]

Hi all, I am an absloute beginner. I have set up 3 extended analogue ovals and my lad and I  are quite happy just watching the trains go round, we have no real need to go further at the moment. 

We just want to try different engines and watch them, we have Hogwarts express, highland train, and newly acquired Eurostar.

Like a fool I bought a dcc fitted, flying scotsman, speaking to somebody from Hornby he said to disconnect the chip and it should then run on the old track. The chip I removed was in the tender? I removed it but the train still will not run. The small plug that connected tender to engine I unplugged but, still no joy. I am probably doing something basically wrong. But knowing nothing I can surely only learn.

Many thanks for taking the time to look. Hopefully somebody will be able to help.

[Bulleidboy]

I'm no expert on this at all, but having removed the decoder (chip), you need to replace it with a blanking plug. The loco would normally come with this fitted if it were DCC Ready, but as yours is DCC Fitted - did it not come with a blanking plug in the box??

[Abeginner]

No, unfortunately no blanking plug, I had seen that one may be required, but do not seem to be able to find one. Probably my. search criteria not good enough. May be sacrilege but if I snipped the wires on the chip , put it back in would that do?

 

Abeginner

[Chrissaf]

Do not cut the wires off the decoder, that will not get your loco working on DC Analogue. Being a Hornby loco (assumption) the socket in the tender where the decoder is fitted will be an 8 pin socket. The 8 pin 'Blanking Plate' plug to replace the decoder and convert the loco to a bog standard DC Analogue loco are available to buy (subject to finding a retailer currently with stock).

.

The loco will also not run on DC Analogue if the 4 way plug that connects the loco to the tender is unplugged either.

.

Click this link

.

On the page that opens... look for these part numbers:

.

The first two in the list will do the job but are shown out of stock. However the part numbers will tell you what to search for using Google when trying to find a retailer with stock.

.

Bachmann 36-057

Hornby X9255

.

This one below is in stock, and might be suitable.

Hornby X6236 (ask the Retailer who is selling this if it is a suitable replacement for the X9255. I think it should be as they are not that complicated, see the drawing below).

.

For some reason these basic 'Blanking Plate' plugs seem to be in very short supply at present and out of stock in all the major retailers that I have tried.

.

The amber lines in this schematic show which pins need to be connected together on the 'Blanking Plate.

.

Since your loco is Steam it will not have lights, thus the absolute minimum pins you need to connect together are [Pin 1 to Pin 8] AND [Pin 4 to Pin 5]. If you can find some suitably sized wire, you should be able to bridge these pins on the socket (after removing the decoder) as a temporary fix until such time as you can source a proper 'Blanking Plate' plug. Note that the 'Orange' wire on the decoder goes to Pin 1, that will help with the orientation, but the numbering shouldn't really be an issue as the two ends of the socket are wired the same.

/media/tinymce_upload/6f6e1f5b02d1a77c2d173758563f6261.jpg

.

Have you actually tried running your DCC fitted loco on your Analogue track. If you haven't, you should (might) find that it runs fine on DC.

.

A DCC fitted loco will usually run on DC Analogue with a decoder fitted UNLESS the manufacturer has disabled that function in the decoder by amending CV29 [this is an adjustable DCC configuration feature]. Nearly all manufacturers enable this 'DC Operation' by default, including Hornby. But for some reason, certain Hornby 'DCC Fitted' models have been found to have been shipped with the 'DC Operation' function disabled.

.

One last comment. Ring up Hornby and ask them to send you a 'Blanking Plate' for the model. They have sent these out to other owners 'free of charge' for those that have asked.

.

See also my reply timed at 21:25 in this previous question reply.

/media/tinymce_upload/5f8a3f06f715e9a6ee06bbe671fa4212.gif

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

.

Particularly as my very long reply includes an image, using the 'Blue Button' may result in your reply being held back for image approval, even though it is an existing image.

.

See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

.

.

[Bulleidboy]

Will any 8-pin blanking plug do? I note that on ebay someone has six available - but not from FS loco. In fact there are others for sale - even Peters Spares - all 8-pin. This is not  something I have had to deal with - so an educational question.

[96RAF]

An eight pin blanking plate is generic. Chris’s picture and diagram show you why this is.

 

Having said that some blanking plates have been supplied with suppression and/or directional lighting components fitted so that the loco behaves as a proper DC loco when installed but when removed the loco is better configured for DCC. Any such more complex blanking plate would be either in the loco or in the box.

E.g.

/media/tinymce_upload/d9525eb409800ac10fc9370feda99774.JPG

 

[Bulleidboy]

Thank you.

[Will Hay]

I undoubtedly have a banking plate lying around you can have.

No charge.

Let me know and I'll do some searching.

[ColinB]

I have a big bag of them from the locos I have converted. Hornby seem to be disabling the DC mode on some of their pre fitted DCC locos, I had a  Hornby Lord Nelson class loco where they had done exactly that, I was just about to send it back to Rails when I suddenly realised. Fortunately, I had aquired a broken Elite which I fixed to get it working, so I managed to test it. The real bad thing was that Hornby shown have included a flyer explaining that, it would have saved me effort but more importantly their Supplier. Some people on this site would probably say I should know, but that is a bit like me telling you that you should know about the intricacies of an automotive CAN network (my field) or what compiler to use on a PIC processor. As Chris Tarrant say "it is only easy, if you know the answer". I am amazed they these are in short supply, you can make one from an 8 bin SIL connecter (people on EBay do these, make sure you get the one with two parallel lines of pins), then make a connection between pins 1 and 8 (the two at the top) and 4 and 5 (the two at the bottom), you can do this with wire wire that pushes into the socket. Some of the blanking plates have SMD ( surface mounted device) diodes to switch on the lights (mainly on diesels etc). but in reality if your loco does not have lights you can use any eight pin one. It is only on locos with lights that you have to be a bit more careful.

[96RAF]

You can make an blanking plate substitute using a single paper clip cut in half.  Make two Us and poke one in the socket to bridge pins 1-8 and the other to bridge pins 4-5. Chris said exactly the same thing but using bridging wires. Cost £0.

If anyone feels the need for a photograph of this I will make one and post it upon request.

[ColinB]

Thanks RAF96, I never thought of using paper clips, I normally search around for tinned copper wire. The only thing with paper clips, they have got to be the small type, you have to be careful of not damaging the DCC socket when you push them in. You could use the same technique to bridge the connector pins between loco and tender, to see if there is an issue with tender wiring. I am surprise some hobbyist is not making DCC blanking sockets as a side line, or does Hornby have a patent on them.

[Abeginner]

Hi all many thanks to all of you. Chrissaf. The temp measure wiring worked a treat. Have searched for the blanking plate for a more permanent fix ordered one from Pete's place. But it is not the same model number. If it doesn't work those who have offered, that have maybe a spare laying round is it ok to PM you?

My lad is well  chuffed the engine works well on the setup......... Apart from the fact that it doesn't like the power connectors ( the new type which are part of the track, the engine derails). So have had to install some old power points.

Sorry for not replying sooner, the 2 post newbie thing. I know I don't have a terrific layout but will take a picture to show you.

Again many thanks for all the help you have shared.

Abeginner

[Chrissaf]

I think most normal paper clips are too thick, which is why I purposely didn't mention them. The pins on the blanking plate plugs I have seen look to me to be half the diameter of an average paper clip.

.

If it doesn't work those who have offered, that have maybe a spare laying round is it ok to PM you?

.

This forum does not have any 'Private Messaging' capability and any posting of personal contact information published within a post will be in breach of published Hornby forum rules and will therefore be removed on sight.

.

Rules extract.

/media/tinymce_upload/424c7fff938506133a7899e637232e79.jpg

.

 

[ColinB]

You can get some thin paper clips that would work, I am sure I have bridged pcb sockets with them in the past, but they have to be small. I usually use single core wire with the insulation stripped off.

Any 8 pin blanking plate will work, the Flying Scotsman doesn't have lights. As I said I have a big bag of them and the only time I have to worry is if the loco has lights. It is frightening looking at the bag how many have, although quite often when you order an 8 pin socket to convert an older loco, it is cheaper to buy the socket and plug rather than just the socket. So some of them just came with the sockets. The thing is with Hornby they seem to label the same electronic part with different part numbers. Surprisingly with different prices. If you look up 8 pin dcc socket on Peters or Lendons site, you will find the socket with different part numbers and prices. I have looked at the PCBs and they basically look the same. Similarly for 4 pin sockets, different part numbers and different prices, admittedly some include a screw.