New and setup/service questions

[Chris Nicholas]

Hello to all

I'm new on here and thanks for any help you can give - there seems a lot of information already available.  I've just dug out a lot of track and some locomotives plus coaches.  Many of the items are new or little used as I bought them for my wife about 10 years ago (yes, I know it's taken me an age but, there's been a lot going on... 😳).  She already had some trains and coaches from the sixties but the track had long disappeared so, all the track is recent.  I'd like to make a layout for her (and for me, I suspect!).  We've lived abroad for years and are now back in UK (Somerset).

I used to be an aerospace engineer but now I'm a watchmaker so, the parts are all large for me!  I'm enjoying the layout aspect, servicing and trying out the shunting - very clever.

We've got track and points and I've laid them out in two tracks with some sidings and the newer hornby locos and coaches work fine on there.  At the moment, it's on the floor of the conservatory so, not fixed down - the final size will be about 4 metres by 3 metres.  The controller is a HM2000 and powers both tracks without issue.  It's a competely analogue system and there are a total of 12 points (types 8074/8075, 8077/8078, 8072/8073 so, curved, express and normal).  We've tested it and we're happy with the way everything works and it should be a good layout for us with an express track and an inner one that works with the sidings to do the shunting.

The plan is to fix this to a baseboard and I'm interested in how to power the points and which points to use.  I'd probably prefer surface points and I see Seep, Hornby and so on.

The HM2000 has a pair of uncontrolled outputs - I just measured 16V DC and 18V AC on those.  They share a total of 300mA according to the spec.

Is there a specific CDU that is usually recommended?

Any particular points motors that are recommended?

I also need a worm and wheel puller to service some locos.  I could probably separate these without issue but, I'd prefer a proper tool if there is one?

Here's a picture of an R850/5 Flying Scotsman that I am part way through stripping.  I think it dates to the late seventies and this one should come out well.  Not so sure about the sixties locos.  Even this one has a very noisy motor so will probably have to go off for a rebuild -  I think rewinding would be useful within that so again, any particular recommendations as I won't be able to rewind it myself?/media/tinymce_upload/8252bea46d1c175157bcf316087a076a.png

Many thanks for any help - I think this will be the first of many questions...

Enjoy your day.

Regards, Chris

[Chrissaf]

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

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[JJ73]

Hello & wecome to the Hornby Forum - you have come to the right place 😀 Well done for having a DECENT Controller  😀 that is my Second Choice - My 1st is the H & M Duette - most folk who come on here say that they only have the Hornby basic controller - O-dear - blaaarr - don't like those!!!

 

Any particular points motors that are recommended?

Well if click on the above Red Banner where it say 'Shop' then a Pull down menu will appear 'Accessories' then another menu will appear then click on 'Track & Track Accessories' then on Page 2 you will see 'Surface Mounted Point Motor' R8245 or Point Motor R8014 - I remember when I was younger me & my Dad use this type of motor & it seems to weork well) - (both 'Out of Stock' - Try Ebay but 'Buyers beware' as say on here!!!)

They also do a 'Point Motor Housing' R8015 if your interested!!! I'm also using  analogue aswell  😀

A Couple of Vids might Help not sure :- 

 

- this 1 may help to inspire you perhaps???

[96RAF]

Welcome. A good resume of your needs and wants.

i bought this gear puller, sturdy, well made with interchangeable mandrels. Easily found on Amazon.

/media/tinymce_upload/566e7767389a6abc16ad3a0173ea89bb.jpg

 

I use a Gaugemaster CDU powered by the Aux AC output from the HM2000. I am DCC but make use of the redundant DC controller, using the speed channel outputs to run my street lights, etc.  You can find DIY CDUs if you are handy with a soldering iron. RK educational have some.

 

Point motors. You need to decide if you are going to use solenoids - hence a CDU, or slow motion motor driven or servo operated points. Each have their pros and cons.

 

You will be aware that Hornby issue service sheets for the majority of their models and these are available from various places to download. We can steer you to those later. There are two types of information available - Maintenance Sheet included with a loco that tells of how to get the body off and lubrication - and the downloadable Service Sheet which is more of a limited parts catalogue. The older sheets did include a lot more servicing information than the later ones.

 

Although you have said you are sticking with DC you may want to look at DCC as it is easier to convert at the start than later on when you have built up a larger loco inventory.

 

Enjoy the hobby.

Rob

[Chris Nicholas]

Many thanks for the welcome and quick replies.

@jimmyjames - interesting videos and you have some complicated switch overs there.  I didn't know what the Duette was but it looks like a different version of the HM2000 (older?) in your video.  You clearly like to change layouts!  I saw the Hornby points and the R8243 looks most suitable - as you say, not in stock but, Time Tunnel models have them in.

 

@RAF96 - that looks a proper gear puller and I found it on Amazon, thanks.  Unfortunately, the delivery time is many weeks but, I have enough other stuff to do.  I'll look at the Gaugemaster CDUs although I probably have all the electronics here to make one if I find time for that.

I hadn't realised there were motor and solenoid options for points - I'd assumed they were all solenoids so, I'll search the forum about that.

I downloaded the service sheets (parts list) for the locos that we have here and I was looking for a lubrication guide so, I'll search for that as well.  Thanks.

I will have a read about DCC as well.  For various reasons, we will not expand the layout but, I'll come to that later as it progresses.  If it's all up and running by autumn, I'll be happy as I've quite a lot on.

Many thanks again for the help.  Back to my bench to do some paying work, now...

Best wishes, Chris

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi.

 

The Flying Scotsman is one of the later 1970s "loco drive" versions, fitted with the X.03 (new type) motor.

 

These motors have a black plastic single start worm.

 

The similar X.04 motors have a brass two- start worm.

 

(The X.03 number was re used from an earlier motor, when the black plastic worm, and a few other differences from the X.04 motor were introduced.)

 

The associated gear wheels on the loco axle have a different number of teeth, so the motors are not interchangeable.

 

Hornby Railways progressed from the X.03 motors to a Ringfield motor (various versions) mounted in the tender of most locos.

 

The Ringfield motors persisted until comparatively recently, being replaced by "can" type motors in the locomotive again.

 

The X.04 and X.03 motors are normally noisier than the Ringfield motors, and the more recent can motors.

 

Especially in a large plastic body shell, like the Flying Scotsman, etc...

[Chrissaf]

I'll look at the Gaugemaster CDUs although I probably have all the electronics here to make one if I find time for that.

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I've built a couple of these for friends and they have been using them without issue for a few years now. It is a variation of a circuit design widely published on the Internet.

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/media/tinymce_upload/6f0ba908f4216421c15ce9a1f59e5e91.jpg

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[Jimbo1707820979]

@ RAF96  Maybe a silly question but what are those items of different colours and lengths in the plastic box above your wheel puller ?

[JJ73]

@ Christ N :- Your Welcome & thank yopu fot watching  😀 Yes the Duette is a Older Model of the H & H Controllers!!!

you have some complicated switch overs there.

Hmmm not realy - only if you don't know what your doing!!! - it works  😀

You clearly like to change layouts!

Yeah I never was 1 for perminant Layouts!!!

[96RAF]

@ RAF96  Maybe a silly question but what are those items of different colours and lengths in the plastic box above your wheel puller ?

 

They are jumper wires used on a breadboard for lashing up electronics projects. Once I know the design works I can solder the compinents onto a circuit board, using some of those jumpers if required. They are solid single core.

 

[Chris Nicholas]

Again, many thanks to everyone for the replies. I couldn't answer yesterday as, being new, I was at my post limit.

 

I think I'll go the solenoid route and use R8243 for the points activation. @RAF96, just checked and have virtually everything for the CDU and, as I'll need to rig up a control box anyway, I can add this to the circuit board - much appreciated. I will put what I have on a breadboard to show @Jimbopuff how this looks but, if I post a picture now it won't go up until Monday or Tuesday as it needs moderation. I found the puller in the EU and it should be here next week.

 

Thanks @Sarahagain for the explanation of the motors. The old locos seem to have the earlier X03 (?) with the brass single start worm - these are the ones I have:

 

46201 Princess Elizabeth (R50) - dates to late 50s and body is slightly warped but functional.Old X03 (brass single start) - cleaned the motor and it works well. Need to strip/clean the chassis and running gear.

 

47606 (R52) - dates to late 50s and body is also slightly warped but functional.Old X03 (brass single start) - windings are open circuit... Need to strip/clean the chassis and running gear and motor rebuild.

 

4472 Flying Scotsman (R850/5) - dates to late 70s and is in nice condition but dirty. The one in my first post.New X03 (plastic single start) - cleaned the motor and it works well but noisy. Need to strip/clean the chassis and running gear.I take your point about the body amplifying the noise as I ran it without and it was far quieter. Perhaps some sound insulation on the inside of the body away from the motor might help?  I'll investigate.

 

7028 Cadbury Castle - dates to about 2005. This has the can type motor in the loco that you mentioned. It runs nicely so I won't do anything to it.

 

12 Terrier Ventnor - dates to about 2005. This also has the can type motor in the loco and it runs nicely so I won't do anything to it.

 

So, I've a bit of servicing work to do and I haven't considered the carriages yet... Well, I have, but I'll ask about those another day.

@Jimyjames - we'll just have one fixed layout due to space requirements but, I can definitely see the appeal in changing it around. 😉

Enjoy the weekend, Chris

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi Chris.

 

The slightly warped bodies would be made from Cellulose Acetate plastic.

 

This is an early material, and most models using it date from before 1956/7.

 

The motors with a brass worm will be the X.04, and it's a two-start worm.

 

Your locos are older, and so will have a brass gear on the driving axles.

 

Later models with the X.04 have a black plastic gear wheel, with the same number of teeth.

 

The X.03 motor, with the single start black plastic worm works with a silver grey plastic  gear wheel. Other colours were also used, but not usually black, to avoid confusion...

[Chris Nicholas]

Thanks Sarah.

 

My apologies as I wrote single start worms for everything (which hardly made any sense).  The two early locos definitely have brass double start worms as you said and they mesh with brass gears on the axle.  I thought these were an old version of the X03 but I see what you mean that they are X04.

 

Yes, the Scotsman has a black single start worm and grey axle gear, both in plastic.  Some damping on the inside of the body in front and behind the motor dropped the noise level significantly and it's now no louder than the old X04 locos.  I cleaned much of it and temporarily put it back together but will strip it again to pull the wheels and clean/lubricate those properly.

 

Thanks again for the very nice welcome to the forum.

 

Regards, Chris