BAOR Military train

[Tim M]

The BBC have just shared a Clip of the Day which features a ride on the former British Military Train from West Germany, across East Germany and into Berlin.

https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/449031052136597

I've always been fascinated by this operation and spent many hours researching the Military trains in the Royal Logistics Museum.

It inspired the design team to produce the Coach pack for modellers in N scale under our Arnold brand:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/arnold-n-1-160-rct-4-unit-pack-coaches-blue-beige-livery-the-berliner-period-iv.html

Tim

 

[96RAF]

Very interesting viewing Tim. There are some wonderful archive films out there. I am amazed that so much has survived, although technology is allowing these old films to be refurbished and saved to modern media.

[ellocoloco]

Thanks for posting Tim, an interesting look at an unusual operation. 

 

The Arnold coaches look very nice - I'm sure they will do very in the market.

 

Hopefully the BBC archives will show something from late 1990's Spain that will inspire the design team to recreate the Renfe 10000 series coaches and the 2000 series ARCO rebuilds - in HO. (And a type 310 diesel for shunting purposes?)

 

Fingers crossed for 2021 and stay safe.....

[The Duke 71000]

The BAOR trains between West Germany & Berlin were not the only BAOR trains operated. There were also Military Hospital trains, which operated within West Germany particularly during the fairly frequent combined military exercises. These trains were normally driven by British Railways Drivers attached to the British Army. These trains had a normal German Driver acting as Conductor.

 But some amusing incidents arose from such operations, because British Drivers when moving trains in British Yards can run through hand operated points even when they are in the wrong position. But if you did that in Germany it destroyed the point mechanisms, so DB often had a number of hand operated points to repair after each British Military train !

The Duke 71000 

[Tim M]

The BAOR trains between West Germany & Berlin were not the only BAOR trains operated. There were also Military Hospital trains, which operated within West Germany particularly during the fairly frequent combined military exercises. These trains were normally driven by British Railways Drivers attached to the British Army. These trains had a normal German Driver acting as Conductor.

But some amusing incidents arose from such operations, because British Drivers when moving trains in British Yards can run through hand operated points even when they are in the wrong position. But if you did that in Germany it destroyed the point mechanisms, so DB often had a number of hand operated points to repair after each British Military train !

The Duke 71000 

 

 

I can imagine the surprise when the points broke under the train!

There are some nice Silberling coaches in the Rivarossi tooling bank, I did look at reproducing the British Military train, obviously the interiors would have been wrong, and I think from memory one of the coach exteriors could not be offered. 

[HansP74]

Hi Tim,

I have been researching the Berlin Military Train myself for many years, having used it myself for family and school trips to Berlin; I have a website dedicated to the Berliner at www.British-Berliner.org where I have tried to compile and present as much information as I can about this service.

Something that has alluded me so far are layout plans for the two RCT officer coaches (Salon m and WGSm) as well as the escort coach (Bcmk). During your research at the RLC Museum, did you come across any drawings or photos that show the interior layouts? I’d be forever grateful if you found anything in this respect that you could share.

In return I would be happy to offer any assistance possible with livery and lettering for potential other versions of these coaches, if the intention is to produce these at a later stage.

Best Regards,

Peter

[HansP74]

No problem, done now.

Thanks,

Peter

[Tim M]

Hi Tim,

I have been researching the Berlin Military Train myself for many years, having used it myself for family and school trips to Berlin; I have a website dedicated to the Berliner at www.British-Berliner.org where I have tried to compile and present as much information as I can about this service.

Something that has alluded me so far are layout plans for the two RCT officer coaches (Salon m and WGSm) as well as the escort coach (Bcmk). During your research at the RLC Museum, did you come across any drawings or photos that show the interior layouts? I’d be forever grateful if you found anything in this respect that you could share.

In return I would be happy to offer any assistance possible with livery and lettering for potential other versions of these coaches, if the intention is to produce these at a later stage.

Best Regards,

Peter

 

 

Hi Peter,

There weren't any drawings - but I did have some photos. Let me see which ones I scanned. There were many of the Military Ambulance train - another set of coaches that Rivarossi has the basic coaches for but not with any of the medical modifications of course.

Tim

[HansP74]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for responding - using photos to work out what the interior layout was like will take more puzzling out, but for me that’s sometimes the fun in researching things like this. Let me know when you’ve had chance to go through them.

Many thanks,

Peter

[Tim M]

Hi Peter,

I have one folder of scanned photos which we're organised by the Archivist at their Deepdene Museum.

They all seem to come from the 10,000th journey of the train.

Major General Scott-Barrett is giving the speech in the dining car.

These hopefully might help?

[Tim M]

[HansP74]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for digging these photos out - I had already had copies of these sent to me some time ago so unfortunately they don't cast any further light on the layout of the Salon m and WGSm Officers Coaches. I have already pulled together what I know of these two and the layout seems to correlate with what the TCWOs of the time remember - link here -> History - Rolling Stock (british-berliner.org)

However, I have been able to make significant progress with the layout of the Bcmk Escort Coach. It still survives in original condition, although now heavily graffited and rusting, in a siding belonging to Erfurter Gleisbau GmbH. I posted a request for help gaining access to the coach on one of the German language railway forums, which "Heiko" responded to and sent me his full set of interior pictures of the coach from 2017! Suffice to say these were more than sufficient to create a pretty good layout plan of the coach, as well as assist with my own Openrails and H0-scale model project of the Berliner.

A selection of these photos is linked below:-

View down the corridor

Seating in first compartment, this had ladder access to the roof-mounted observation dome

Wardrobes in one of the TCWO compartments

Further TCWO compartment toward the centre of the coach

Small kitchen area between the TCWO and seating area

Open plan seating - doesn't look very comfortable!

Very unusual open-plan area, divided from the corridor with fixed wall panels and no doors

The layout plan derived from these and about fifty (!) other photos (which I'm more than happy to send you) is as follows

Best wishes,

Peter