Chrissaf Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Hi, I'm new to the forum, I have a class 47 with stub axle centre wheels but both are loose, I bought it second hand and it's in great condition with a strong 3 pole motor but I've just found that it's been doctored. One of the stub axles is actually a small nail/ tack and although this seems ok the original stub on the right is actually too small and the wheel is all over the place, it derails. The shaft also seems to be too narrow. Is it possible to fit a 5 pole motor and will it fit straight into the bogie frame. Any thoughts anyone. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Whilst you wait for a reply, perhaps you would spend a few minutes reviewing the TIPs in the TIP page link below: TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button..See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Yes, it is a staight swap, but you may find it advantageous to change the non-powered bogie at the same time to maximise wheel pick-ups. See service sheet 252. The centre wheels are still loose on their stub axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I don't like to disagree, but it won't, the shaft diameter is different and it uses different gears and wheels, unless you are going to buy the whole bogie with motor. Now if you buy one that has been sleeved, such as the ones Lendons are doing then it will. Peters Spares are doing the whole motor package that have come out of "Gordon" locos, but I don't know if it will fit. If it will it is virtually half the price of just the sleeved armature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Seems a bit drastic to change the whole motor rather than do a proper repair. I don't undertsand the obsession with 5 pole over 3 pole ringfield motors, the performance difference of a 5 pole over a 3 pole motor in goodfettle is very minimal. You would be better off repairing the power unit with the correct parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I have just fitted a 5 pole into my Hornby County of Bedford and I can see why people want to do it. The slow speed running is tons better and the whole loco goes better. I must admit it was pretty good with the 3 pole but with the 5 it is fantastic. The only issue I did get was I had to machine the tender base as the bigger gears were infering with the chassis. The biggest improvement that can be make with a ringfield is to get the loco to pick up from all wheels bar the traction tyred ones. I am not sure putting pickups on the wheels with traction tyres gives you much, as rubber is a great insulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 As for the broken stub, I noticed these are just another one of those spares that are out of stock. I don't know if you can do it with this motor, but it might be worth drilling through and putting a dummy axle in, like they do on the steam locos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Paul was asking whether a 5-pole "motor" would fit in the same bogie frame as the 3-pole and the answer remains - yes. The problem with using a drive unit from a loco such as Gordon is that the rail wheel diameter is larger than on the class 47. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 @Going Spare The Gordon one won't fit anyway, it is too long, I checked. I have an old class 47 that I was about to sell and checked it. If it did fit you could have replaced the wheels, but I am not sure if you can get them anymore. A 5 pole bogie must be even rarer to find than a 5 pole armature. You cannot put in the spindle either there isn't enough room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 As for the "small tack" stub axle... The plastic face plate side does have what looks like a silver (aluminium?) "tack", but with no point, as the stub axle. This is the original part. The other side is generally part of the motor block casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Thanks for all the comments and advice, i don't particularly want to change the whole motor unit as it runs very well it's just that the stub axle that's fixed to the block will not hold the wheel straight. I cannot drill a hole to fit a complete axle as I would be drilling through the magnet as it sits very low in the body. I've sent out some emails to try and get another block, part number X941B NI/ SK there are a few versions of class 47 mine is a mammoth from 1979-1982. There are a few ringfield motors on eBay but I need one that will fit into the bogie frame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 I got the exact loco sitting in front of me, it is the one in my earlier post that I am going to sell. I replaced with a Bachmann as I prefer locos that pickup on all wheels. The middle two wheels on mine are really "floppy", I don't remember it being that much of an issue, but probably I was more concerned with it not running properly (recently fixed with new brushes). Yes, I said earlier in the post you cannot put in an axle, so you will just have to put up with the stubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Thanks for the info Sarah about the stub axles, I least I know it's not been doctored. As for the fixed body stub I'll have to see what can be done to repair it. Regards paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 If you buy a complete drive unit (motor, block, wheels) you will be ok going for X941B/NI/SK as that will fit in to your bogie frame but if you are offered just the bare motor block with no fittings (plastic faceplate, armature, gears, wheels, etc) with a view to transferring the fittings from your existing drive, do not buy one that is China-made (i.e. with any of the suffixes B/NI/SK) because although it will still be for a 3-pole armature, the axle bearings will be suitable only for Chinese made axles which are a smaller diameter than the original uk-made X941 and your axles will not fit. Also beware if it has 5P as a further suffix as that block will accept only a 5-pole armature and not your existing 3-pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Going SpareySpare thankfor that info. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Colin B, having solved my axle problem, I noticed that you said you had got the exact loco which you were going to sell. Can you tell how I can get hold of the coupling bars as mine hasni any fitted. I've tried various couplings with hooks but they won't fit. The newer class 47 couplings are completely different. The bars and hooks are separate parts..regards Frankie2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 The coupling bar is moulded as part of the bogie frame S9679. The only addition is the metal coupling hook which clips on. If the coupling bars have been cut off your loco and you can't make any replacement couplings fit (which ones have you tried?), you will need to source new bogie frames (which were also fitted to class 37 locos of the same era). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Going spare- Hi, I have tried x8025 & x8031 + modern class 47's . I suspect my loco has not got the original bogie frames as nothing has been cut off from them. I will see if I can get S9679 frames. This is a great help. My bogies do fit very well but trying to match them with couplings is difficult because i don't know what model loco these have come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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