DCC beginners set-up using Hornby Select

[Wartoncraghopper]

Hello, this is my first post. Its been a long time since I played with trains and I need to get up to date! I am still a complete novice.

I have dusted off my old DC shunting layout during lockdown. Its a very simple shunting layout: a 1.5 m branch line with just four solenoid motorized points serving a couple of sidings and a goods shed. It is all connected, from the edge of the baseboard, to a 'walkabout' panel , about A4 landscape size, on which there is a Graham Farish controller fixed at one side and a small mimic control board with track diagram at the other end. There are largish latching push buttons to change the points. Its crude but it works fine; I only have 4 locos and I only ever operate one loco at a time. I sit 6 feet away, press the switches, the points clunk across, I turn the controller knob and my Hornby class 08 crawls away. I only occassionaly have to get up and help a loco limp across a point.

Now, having been impressed by the new DCC ready/fitted all-singing all-dancing locos, I want to upgrade the whole caboodle to DCC. BUT...I also want to replicate the same simplicity of my DC control panel. So, let me be clear, I do not necessarily want the larger two knob control of a Hornby Elite; I do not want a PC connection; I do not want a Railmaster software package; I do not want a handheld iphone controller or anything like that.

I simply want, and this is where I would like members advice..., perhaps a 4 amp upgraded Select with enough functionality to run just four locos (thats all) complete with their sound cards. ( perhaps a class 08 shunter, a class 05, a class 03, and a DMU/Railcar for instance)

I would like the Select to be mounted on a slim, maybe A3 sized box alongside a simple mimic board ( with small push button switches for points with led track lights) with a Sfx DCC decoder for the points inside the box) .

Is this combination possible? It would replicate my existing DC combo. I've looked and looked, seen lots of info on controllers, lots of info on mimic boards, lots of info on wiring to DCC ...there is a lot of sophisticated stuff out there but I can't seem to find anyone whose got a simple DCC controller/mimic board combination. When I mention 'handheld' I am advised to get a tablet, iphone or ipad linked to a pc with Railmaster ..but I don't want that! 

I don't want to get into the subject of rewiring the track, the points/solenoid motors in this post..its really about the combination of controller and mimic board on a detached semi-'walkabout' unit. Can any members advise me?

Many thanks.

ps. As I write I've just had some friendly advice pointing me back towards an Elite ( because of its better cv functionality) but then plug a lead into the back of it to serve a Select slave unit as my walkabout and have that unit mounted on a board next to a compact mimic board. ( will that need a separate power lead and baseboard connection?)  It might just be the closest I can get to my original concept. Any thoughts please .

[Chrissaf]

First of all. The very latest Selects if bought brand new and not old shelf stock at a cut down to get rid of price will be version 2.0 Selects. These will have all the 'bells and whistles' i.e the ability to write to all the CVs that the Selects that you have probably researched lack.

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If you were to get an older Select, then it is upgradeable (return to Hornby upgrade) to the latest specification. The cost of which is £15 plus VAT (£18) plus your sending postage costs. You need a 'returns number' from Hornby Customer Services to arrange an upgrade.

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Either way, whether it is a brand new version 2.0 Select or an upgraded version, you need the later firmware if you want to control 'sound equipped locos'. Only these later Select versions will access the higher numbered Functions F9 to F28 to play sounds.

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So there is no need to buy an Elite just because you think that is the only way to adjust the full range of CVs. Granted, the Select still won't be able to read the value of the CVs, but writing them is the important bit. You have already indicated that you are aware that the 4 amp power pack P9300 is an upgrade to a standard Select.

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I appreciate that you said that you didn't want this reply to get into the track wiring bit, but this important information needs to be mentioned. If you are using Hornby DC Analogue track power clips R8206 or R602, then these either need to be replaced with DCC versions R8241 or R8242 or modified for DCC use. Remember that with DCC, all the track needs to be live all the time, so you may need to wire in some additional track feeds or alternatively fit R8232 DCC point clips if the existing points are suitable for them.

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Personally, based purely on your description. I would leave the operation of points completely DC Analogue control as they currently are and just use the Select for operation of the DCC decoder fitted locos. This will completely eliminate the need for any Accessory Decoders.

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The reason I make this suggestion is two fold. Firstly to operate points with a Select using DCC Accessory Decoders requires a lot of sequential button pressing on the Select and is nowhere near as intuitive as a DC Analogue mimic panel. Secondly, yes you could incorporate a DCC solution with a manual button solution and have LED point indicators on a mimic panel. But not easily using Hornby Accessory Decoders. It would however be easy to do using a DCC Concepts ADS Accessory Decoder which has built in contacts for LED panels and terminals to connect push button manual over-ride buttons. But I predict, that you will soon be using the manual override option exclusively and abandoning using the Select to operate the points, particularly as there are only four of them.

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TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[Wartoncraghopper]

Thank you Chrissaf for your prompt and detailed reply. Your thoughts on retaining the analog DC are understood and appreciated.

Can I ask, if I elect to use just the 4 amp Select version 2.0 with its extended cv functionality, you say it can 'write'  through F9 to F28 but not 'read'....what does that mean in practice? Say, would I not be able to adjust the level of a sound or the brightness of a cab light ? In your view and given my simple requirements do you think this 'read' limitation holds any real disadvantage?

Thank you.

[Chrissaf]

...you say it can 'write' through F9 to F28 but not 'read'....what does that mean in practice?

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You are mixing up the Function term with CVs. They are two completely different things.

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CVs (Configuration Variable) are settings held in the DCC decoders that tell the decoder how to react to the DCC commands sent by the controller. CVs are things that you write to [configure] once, then forget about as they are remembered by the decoder. An example of a CV is CV1 which contains the DCC Address that is used by the Select controller to drive a loco. With a Select, the value of CV1 would have to be a number (DCC Address) between 01 and 59.

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Say, would I not be able to adjust the level of a sound or the brightness of a cab light ?

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Writing a CV to adjust 'sound volumes' or 'adjust LED brightness' is a CV write task and not a Function task. Note that not all decoders actually offer the capability to adjust 'LED brightness'. Hornby R8249 & Hornby TTS Sound decoders don't offer that capability.

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...do you think this 'read' limitation holds any real disadvantage?

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With regard the 'Read' comment. You read CVs ... you do not read Functions. Say you were given or purchased a second-hand decoder perhaps fitted in a loco that had previously been used. Since you can't read CVs with a Select, then you wouldn't be able to read the value of CV1 to find out what DCC Address the previous owner had given it. But this is not a major issue, because you could just write a new value (new DCC Address) into CV1 instead, thus knowing what the previous owner set it too is not that important. Writing a value 8 to CV8 for most decoders performs a complete factory reset to default factory values for all configurable CVs, so again the ability to read CVs is a nice to have, but not a huge issue if you can't. Note the default factory address is 03, so this overcomes the not knowing what the previous owner set the address to, that issue becomes immaterial because writing 8 to CV8 removes any configuration changes the previous owner made to the decoder and resets the DCC Address to 03.

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Functions on the other hand, are how you turn things 'on' and 'off' during the operation of a loco during a play session by using the function buttons on the controller you send Function (Fn) commands to the decoder in the loco from the controller.

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The full range of Functions are F0 to F28, but not all controllers support the full range. Prior to firmware release 1.5 the Select would only support F0 - F8 and I believe the original version 1.0 Select only did F0- F4.

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Sound decoders use Functions to play a sound. Say for example you want to play a loco Horn or Whistle. This task for example, might be assigned to Function F3.

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Function F0 is usually reserved for turning the 'Directional Lights' on and off on locos that support lights.

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Function F1 on a sound decoder is usually reserved to start up the engine and play the engine running sound.

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Functions F2 to F28 will be defined by the manufacturer for tasks specific to their decoder. The image below is an extract taken at random from a Hornby TTS Class 47 Diesel Sound decoder which uses F0 to F25.

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By sending the appropriate Fn number in the table below from the controller to the loco decoder. You invoke the feature listed in the table for that particular function number.

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F25 in the table below is not a sound. This is a physical function that will depend upon how the decoder is installed in the loco and wired up. For example it might be wired to the loco 'Cab Light' ... so F25 would be used to turn that light 'on' and 'off'.

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In your view and given my simple requirements do you think this 'read' limitation holds any real disadvantage?

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Given my explanations above ..... no not really.