Railroad Class 08 pick ups

[dph]

Hi everyone. I have purchased a Railroad Class 08. It works on analogue but I can't programme it for DCC, using the Elite. A quick look underneath shows the pickups are not correctly positioned. I'm hoping it will be an easy pick but I'm stuggling to take the body off. I've not done this before, on any loco, and don't want to break anything. Can anyoine offer any help? Thanks in advance.

[Chrissaf]

It works on analogue but I can't programme it for DCC, using the Elite. A quick look underneath shows the pickups are not correctly positioned.

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If it works on DC Analogue OK as you say, then there can't possibly be any issues with the 'pickups'. The 'pickups' are common to both DC and DCC operation.

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It has to be fitted with a DCC Decoder before you can programme it for use on DCC.

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As it is a Railroad model .... it is far more likely to be a DC Analogue model than a DCC one. If you state the model R number, it is easy enough to check whether the model is 'DCC Ready' or 'DCC Fitted'. Knowing what the R number is, will also make it easier for us to advise how the body comes off.

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If the box it came in says 'DCC Ready' on the packaging, then it is a 'DC Analogue' locomotive and not a DCC one.

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Models have the terms 'DCC Fitted' or 'DCC On-Board' printed on the packaging if they are DCC compatible out of the box.

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If it is DC Analogue locomotive, then placing it on the main DCC track risks damaging the loco motor. You must fit a DCC decoder to the model to use it with your Elite.

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TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[dph]

Thanks so much for the reply and the info about the pickups. The loco originally came from Horby's mixed freight DCC set and I understand the Jinty that came with it runs fine. Is the next step to take off the body and check the deconder is in place and installed correctly? If it is any advice as to how to take the body off will be much appreciated.

[Rog RJ]

Remove the front coupling, then using a a small flat bladed screwdriver carefully lever the body up and off the central lug that can be seen in the hole in the front of the body.  Pull the front of the loco up at an angle and then forwards to release the 2 rear lugs that secure the back.

 

 

See maintenance sheet  https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/download/item/168

[Going Spare]

The body will be held in place by a horizontal lug at the front (radiator end) which should be released first, allowing the front of the chassis to drop down thereby releasing the two hooks which engage in an adapter plate that in turn locates in to the outer wall of the cab.  The body/chassis fixings are exactly the same as on the Jinty (as both locos use the same chassis) except that the class 08 body sits on the chassis the opposite way round to the Jinty (so the lug is at the bottom of the Jinty bunker) and the adapter plate is not used on the Jinty so the chassis hooks locate direct to the body under the smokebox.  Never try to release the hooks first.

[Chrissaf]

As a Railroad DCC set, then the loco will already be configured for DCC.

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What is it that you are trying to programme in the loco decoder using the set supplied Select controller? The Select (pre version 1.6) is very limitied in what CVs it can change.

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Also if you have never used the Select to successfully programme a DCC decoder before, please outline the method steps you are using, so we can check them for validity ... as you might just be doing it wrong.

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Also, what is the firmware revision on the Select. The very first number to appear briefly on screen when you power up the Select. Expect to see a number between 10 and 20.

[jane1707819582]

Give the pickups a good clean cannot help with the ELITE much other than try the different programming modes you can with the ELITE.Try to reset the decoder  8 to CV 8 

[96RAF]

Confusion reigns again. The OP mentions an Elite but the set comes with a Select.

[Chrissaf]

Ooops...

Same supplementary questions though:

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What is it that you are trying to programme in the loco decoder using the Elite controller?

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Also if you have never used the Elite to successfully programme a DCC decoder before, please outline the method steps you are using, so we can check them for validity ... as you might just be doing it wrong.

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If you are used to using the set Select, are you aware that the Elite requires you to programme the DCC decoder on the 'PROG A&B' output of the Elite and not the track output that the Select uses.

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Also, what is the firmware revision on the Elite. The number to appear briefly on screen when you power up the Elite. Expect to see a number between 1.3 and 1.45

[Fishmanoz]

Rob and all, I think you've fallen for the 3-card trick here.  DPH says he's bought an 08, he also says he understands the Jinty from that set is working fine.  He doesn't say he has the Mixed Freight set and Select.  He just has the 08 and an Elite.

 

As it works on Analogue, the decoder must be fitted.  I don't believe there is any such thing as a blanking plug for 4-pin socket in this loco.

 

DPH, were you told the address the 08 was programmed to on purchase?  Irrespective, I suggest you start by programming 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder. Then it should be working on address 03 so check it's operation on this address. If now operating, then program it to the address you want it on and check again it is still operating. If you are having problems with programming, try gentle pressure on the loco as you try. 

[dph]

Hi everyone, Rob is correct. I am trying to programme the 08, which came from the freight set, with an elite controller. I have successfully programme sever locos using the elite.

I have managed to take the body off and the chip is securely in place and there doesn't appear to be any loose wires.

When I read the address I get XXX. I have tried the reset CV8 to 8 several times and then go back to reading the address, still XXX. 

When I read CV8, 255 appears on the screen - is this right?

I don't know what else to do so any further advice would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

[dph]

Sorry, that should read "I have successfully programmed several locos"

[Rog RJ]

xxx and 255 means the Elite cannot detect any response from the loco.  Ideally, I would try swapping decoders with other models to prove the fault but if you don't have any other 4 pin decoder locos to swap with, you can't do that.

 

Have you tried cleaning the loco wheels and programming track?

 

 You may well need a new decoder.

[Chrissaf]

In the very first line of his original post, DPH stated that the 08 ran OK on Analogue. This would infer that pickups and electrical continuity through the decoder is OK. It seems unlikely, but there could be a 'short circuit' between the decoder track input through to the decoder motor output but it would be a chance in a million that both legs were shorted through the decoder without being in contact with each other.

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This drawing represents an example Hornby 4 pin decoder and shows how it is wired into the loco. This drawing may aid further diagnostics:

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/media/tinymce_upload/81c605ee07e756ce9b491b31f6f1010f.jpg

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Just for info ... this is what a 4 pin blanking plug looks like

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/media/tinymce_upload/ce54e6a0e0b65b95b6747168eb06a928.jpg

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[Howbi]

The new stock code for the 4 pin decoder is R7274.........currently in stock with major online retailers, about £15........HB

[jane1707819582]

Hi everyone, Rob is correct. I am trying to programme the 08, which came from the freight set, with an elite controller. I have successfully programme sever locos using the elite.

I have managed to take the body off and the chip is securely in place and there doesn't appear to be any loose wires.

When I read the address I get XXX. I have tried the reset CV8 to 8 several times and then go back to reading the address, still XXX. 

When I read CV8, 255 appears on the screen - is this right?

I don't know what else to do so any further advice would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Swapping the decoder would be my next step

 

[96RAF]

Substitution is one way of fault finding but what if there is a fault and this killed the original decoder. Of course it may just have gone south from natural causes.

 

Try a final try using the Elite REG programming mode. Register 1 is the address. REG mode looks at 8 registers on the decoder and is not quite as simple as DIRECT mode. 

 

Google Register mode programming for more i fo about the other registers.

 

If there is a wiring fault on the loco then the low potentil of the Programming output will not cause damge and should flg up an error of some kind.

[ColinB]

The best solution to check if the DCC decoder is faulty, take the 08 faulty on out and put it in the Jinty. Don't put the Jinty decoder into the 08, just in case it is blowing them up. I must admit it sounds like the decoder has died but just in case you could put something heavy on the 08, when you trying to read the decoder, just in case it is not always making contact. Mind you they shouldn't just die, I have blown quite a few up, but usually there is a reason, in your case you bought it with it already fitted so that rules out all the errors fitting it. When you take the decoder out of the 08, check that there is no connection from motor connections to rail pickups, or rails, that will definitely damage the decoder.

[Fishmanoz]

Colin, it will be a tad difficult to put the decoder in the Jinty he doesn't have.  Read again his first post and mine at the bottom of page 1. 

However, DPH, Colin's method will work if you have any other 0-6-0 with the 4-pin decoder fitted, try the 08 decoder in that.  But it will involve removing another body. 

[ColinB]

In his second post he mentions a Jinty, but reading it again I assume somebody else has it. This post certainly goes round the houses I must admit, I invested in a LaisDCC tester (there are others), it has been a God send for testing decoders. The other day several wires fell off a decoder while I was taking the body off a loco, once I have figured where the power wires went (just check for connection to input diodes), I could then figure where the rest went by using the tester. It removes the unknown of a "duff" loco. Yes, I know I could have made one, but it is nicer to have a purpose built piece of kit, that is reliable.

In this case it might be my old favorite the "duff" connector, I have had a few where the connector has a "dry solder" joint, or the socket has lost its grip, so it works intermittently.

[dph]

Thanks so much for all the replies. I have tried to programme using REG but still nothing. I have had a good look at the decoder and all the wires seem to be securely in place. Unfortunately I don't have another 4 pin decoder so I cant switch. I will take it to my local shop later - it's based in a garden centre so it's open - to see if they can test with another decoder.

One final question, and apologies in advance if I appear stupid, but if I unplug the decoder and then try and run the loco on analogue, should it work?

[96RAF]

If you unplug the decoder it will not run on analogue until you fit the blanking plug Chris showed a picture of earlier.

[dph]

Ok, thanks for the reply. Off to the shop later!

[Chrissaf]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DCC-4-PIN-Blanking-Plug-for-HORNBY-Replaces-Hornby-X6623-NEW-/254368455047