Pullman Coaches

[busman 25]

Hi there everyone, I am relatively new to the hobby and recently bought five New Pullman Coaches online from a well known model shop in Yorkshire, I am perfectly happy with my purchase which were quite cheap, and advertised as "New Unboxed Stock" "Split" from unsold Train Sets, which appears to be exactly what I recieved in the parcel.

They run perfectly without problems or issues and are obviously brand spanking new, however three coaches, Rosemary, Leona and Car 55 have Off White roofs, while Rosamund and Car 77 have Silver roofs, so now after all this preamble my question is WHY?, did some sets have different quality coaches (Railroad)?, was the roof colour changed for different sets?, or was it due to a revamp of the model line?.

Your comments would be appreciated, I must say that this issue has been bugging me since I recieved these coaches a couple of weeks ago.

Dave    

[Bulleidboy]

Hi Dave - if you Google "pullman coaches colour roof" - there is a vast amout about the subject. You don't say whether these coaches have working lights on the tables - nothing to do with roof colour, but the Railroad Pullman coaches do not have working table lights. Your best best is to get a pot of Railmatch Roof Dirt and paint them all the same colour. In real life, whatever colour they were produced in, they would have soon become a dirty grey colour. BB

[LCDR]

Coach roof colour (not just Pullman) as BB says has been discussed endlessly on this forum.

In the 'real world' roofs of carriages have been made from a variety of materials, and made waterproof in as many ways.

 

At first and until the 1920s the commonest roof material was wood, covered with canvas which was often dressed with white lead a kind of waterproofing paint. When new this was bright white but as time went along the acid and soot in the locomotive smoke beating down on the roofs quickly discoloured it, from white to grey and eventually to black.

 

In the middle of the 1920s carriage designs started to change and steel sheeting was used to cover the roof of new coaches.  Galvanised steel sheet is a silvery grey colour and sometimes this was painted white to match the older coaches, or with aluminium paint which looked silvery, or with grey paint of various shades, recognising that after some months it would turn black anyway. 

 

Pullman cars which were introduced in the 1920s went through these changes. The type K cars which appeared in 1923 to 1927 still used a lot of wood in their construction, so much so that the sides had noticable matchboarded lower sides using vertical tongue and groove planks. 

 

Then in 1928 a new series of K class cars were built, originally intended for the "Queen of Scots" Pullman service on the East Coast main line, and similar services. These were monocoque construction in steel, with the body taking all the load and doing away with a seperate heavy underframe. Being all steel of course the roof did not need to be covered with canvas, however from time to time the roofs were painted white to match the other cars, although they quickly weathered to grey or black. 

 

Silver painted Pullman car roofs were not at all common, and tended to be the electric powered cars used on the Brighton Belle.  In normal service Pullman car roofs were grey unless they were fresh out of a paint shop, although for special duties such as Royal duties, for example the Derby Day special, the roofs were specially cleaned and where necessary re-painted white. 

 

[busman 25]

Hi there guys, thanks for that, its just been bugging me why Hornby should supply what looks to be exactly the same coach with a different colour roof, there is no lighting in any of the coaches. I have however decided to paint all the roofs as suggested, mainly because the off white ones just do not look right, just need to get my airbrush up and running now.

Dave  

[JJ73]

Hiya

 

Well her is my collection of Pullman Carriages - I even got 2 Pullman Carriages with the same name (Agatha) but with different colour roofs!!! (Just to add to the confusion!!!) Agatha on Right has White roof - Agatha on Left has Silver roof

 

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Rosemary has Silver roof, Ione has Silver Roof, Car No. 88 & Lucille has Cream roof & Car No. 92 has Silver Roof

 

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Lastly I have 3 Pullman Carriages 'With working Table Lamps!!!'  😀 - Car No.s 55 (With curtains), 72 & 73 Third Class & with Cream Roofs!!! (Car No 72 has 2 more 'Air Vents'??? on the roof)

 

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As L.C. says above the roofs were made in different ways / designs to water proof them - but now I have also have a question (while I'm here) which I have been wondering for a long time!!! I also notice on the roof - they all seem to have 2 wires??? @ each end of the Carriages on top (in which I ringed)??? ( See photo below...)

 

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[LCDR]

Bear in mind that models of a railway carriages may not be 100% correct, especially all together. The manufacturer may select a certain colour or livery one year, and a different one the next. If you buy them at different times, and especially if you buy second hand, you may well be mixing appearances from  completely different eras. 

[The Duke 71000]

JJ,

The two "wires" were actually water pipes, that went over the roof ends and down to waist height. In carriage sidings or terminal stations a hose could be connected to the lower end of the pipe, to fill the toilet water tanks in the roof. These "pipes" were common on many coaches with toilets, not just Pullmans. 

 

The double vents also ringed in your photo indicates this vehicle is a Kitchen car (not a parlour car).

 

Note also that your photos reveal Pullmans in two liveries. The difference being the "Pullman" logo on the car sides. The more colourful logo is a true Pullman car logo, but the squatter less coulourful logo, was that adopted by BR when they took over the Pullman car company.  

The Duke 71000    

[JJ73]

Thank you for the Duke - Every day is a school day!!! & Now I know - Water pipes - Yeah I did noticed that I had different types of Pullman Liveries - Just thought that they were different designs - My 3 Pullman (with the more Colourfull design & working Table Lamps) are a True Pullman but when BR took over - they went 'down-hill' a bit then (My Carriages Names Ione & Rosemany say)!!!

[LCDR]

After the War many of the Pullmans with matchboarded sides were 'improved' with steel sheeting fixed on the outside of the lower portions to give them a smoother appearance and look more like the 'all steel' cars. It also made them easier to keep clean. It was still painted Pullman Umber and lined out but the Third Class cars lost the words Third Class on the number on the side and simply became "Car No. xxx". First class cars retained the name as before. 

When the diesel Blue Pullmans appeared in 1960 BR who by now owned the Pullman company altered the Pullman crest which became more elongated, and also applied this to the hauled Pullmans as they came into works for repainting. This is a way of roughly dating your Pullmans.