My crazy stopped working and it's driving me loco (LMS 0-6-0 R052)

[DrewTheWordsmith]

Hi all,

 

Apologies firstly for what I imagine is a dusty old joke for a title. I have also gone back through the 'sticky' FAQ on non-working locos (having already read it twice through in the course of embarking on my layout) and tried to rule out as much of the basic possibilities before briniging the problem to this forum.

 

So, this is the story. A few weeks ago I was steaming ahead with my layout (it's fairly basic and posted on the 'let's see your layout' thread) and believing I was making good progress with track and rolling stock, decided to go for a second loco. I knew the one I wanted and found a seemingly good listing on you-know-what.

 

I received my loco and aside from a whiff of old cigarette smoke, nothing was pointing to a problem. It's first run was unsurprisingly jerky and points were inevitably not smooth. Back in the box it went and once I'd got myself a maintenance kit together, gave the wheels a good clean and oiled the axles and other moving parts on the chassis. I battery tested the wheels, it started jerkily (it had also been another 10 days or so since the run) but soon seemed to be going along smoothly. This was only a matter of seconds, long enough for it show an effect from the oil.

 

Back on the track and straight away it was going along quite nicely with a 10 minute run in on the outer oval of my layout. A bit more testing and it was not so great on slow speed and still not 100% happy on points but much improved and seemingly in rude health for a model that must be decades old.

 

Then it conked out. It had derailed taking a bend but after a rest it got going again and just as I was about to try out some shunting, it just stopped. At first I thought it had stalled, the was no noise, no smell, nothing went bang! I unplugged the controller, reset it on a nice straight bit of track but there was no life in it. I battery tested it and there was nothing.

 

The total running time was no more than 20 minutes which to me doesn't seem that long but I thought maybe it was just over heating a bit so left it a couple of days but even after that, nothing. The controller is fine, I've checked the track in minute detail, cleaned it carefully, all fine. My other loco is considerably newer (although also not bought new) and is running absolutely fine across the entire layout. Just to be clear as well I only go up to a moderate speed, nothing racey!

 

So I'm at a loss. I haven't dug any deeper because I just don't know what I'm doing. There's several small screws under the chassis which I presume are holding the body on. Assuming I can remove it without too much bother, any ideas as to what I could be looking for? Or have I just totally blundered somewhere into a rookie error (and yes, I know, auction websites are always a risk)?

[Yelrow]

Drew, hi, your loco is covered as provided it was sold as mint/ good condition, it must be suitable for purpose. Contact the seller, initially, if no joy,  either lodge complaint with Ebay, or Paypal.   Give seller chance to return/ refund.  Both Ebay and Paypal, inverably take side of purchaser. Dont attempt to fiddle with it. Let us know what transpires. 

[Tony57]

Have you looked at the X04 motor?

The commutator may need cleaning, at the same time you need to look at the brushes and renew if necessary also check the connecting wire from the wheel wipers to the motor is sound as are the solder joints.

X04s are normally bomb proof they can fail but are cheap enough to have rebuilt and remagnatised.and any X04 can be used to replace the existing one 

[Yelrow]

tony, great advice, but surely first line of attack, must be the guy who sold it.

[Bulleidboy]

This loco is about forty years old - I'm not making an excuse for the seller, but if it has been sitting in a box for some years, it might need a very good overhaul. I think in was introduced in 1978.

[Yelrow]

Yup, accept that. Only poster knows  how seller described it.  My point was with limited knowledge, you could do more harm than good.   No doubt we will learn how it was described.

[Rana Temporia]

Unless Hornby re-used the R052 number this one is the old type and could date from the late 1950s. A picture would be useful. If it derailed it may have knocked the pick-ups away from one of the wheels. Depending on its age it could have a cellulose acetate body or a polystyrene one, Solid wheels or spoked wheels and a number of other differences. However, as mentioned it should have an X04 motor. The screw to take the body off the chassis is on the LHS looking from the back of the loco just behind the smokebox, unless it's a really old model in which case it'll be down the chimney. 

 

Have a look at the motor and see if the brushes are touching the commutator and in good shape. Also check that the wire from the pick-ups hasn't  become detached. If it has you'll need a soldering iron to re-attach. 

 

Depending on how much you paid (around £7 is about the going rate for one of these on the auction site) it would be easier to repair than send back even if it needs a new motor (which I doubt). Some pictures underneath and of the motor would help. 

[atom3624]

It appears to originate in the 70's:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/64569/hornby_r052_3f_class_3f_jinty_0_6_0t_16440_in_lms_maroon/stockdetail.aspx

https://www.hattons.co.uk/278631/hornby_r052_3f_ln07_class_3f_jinty_0_6_0t_47606_in_br_black_pre_owned_like_new/stockdetail.aspx

http://www.hornbyguide.com/catalogue_number_details.asp?catno=R.052

 

https://www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/details/2654/

 

Al.

[Going Spare]

R52 was the earlier loco, superceded by R052.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

R.52.Tri-ang Railways "Jinty".

 

R.052 was the number when three digit numbers came in.

 

Unfortunately, the number has been reused.

 

The later Hornby Railways "Jinty" used the same number, R.052, for the front wheel drive new tooling model.

 

Going by the OP reference to "several screws" in the baseplate (The older models only have two for the pick up plate, and one for each coupling) I think that we are dealing with the later 'clip on' body type locos. These have, I think I recall, three screws holding the baseplate to the chassis block, and one for each coupling, which also secure the ends of the baseplate to the chassis block.

 

To remove the body, it can be useful to remove the rear coupling, held on by the rearmost screw, under the bunker.

 

There is a clip on the rear of the chassis baseplate that locates into a slot in the bottom centre of the bunker.

 

Use a small screwdriver as a lever and gently and carefully ease the bunker base clear of the clip, while gently lowering the chassis rear out of the body.

 

There are two clips on the front of the chassis baseplate, that should disengage as the body is lifted rearwards and clear of the chassis.

 

The chassis could be the front wheel drive type, with an X.03/X.04 motor, or it may be a later type with a Type 7, or M series motor, in a plastic housing.

 

Hopefully this may help?

 

[Anglia998]

There are 2 versions of the 3F Jinty,with the ref R052 - the first in 1973 as 47606 in black with the late BR logo.

The second in 1978 was an upgraded version.It appeared in LMS maroon with the number 16440

There were several versions of the Jinty with the ref R52 - the first in 1953 and the last in 1971. This was R52RS, again in LMS maroon livery with the number 7606. This model had Synkrosmoke and Magnadesion.

All R52 and R052 models were Jintys.

[DrewTheWordsmith]

Many thanks for the responses so far. It is indeed the maroon liveried 16440 model.

 

It sounds like it's as I feared, the age is somewhat problematic and the solution is potentially fiddly and technical around the motor. Even checking definitions of words like 'commutator' and 'brushes', I still don't fully understand these.

 

I went back and checked the original listing. It's a very canny description: "excellent running condition... for it's age" as well as recommending a service but ultimately it was listed as 'Used' so I think I'm on shakey ground in terms of trying to return it in anyway.

 

I think I might just have to brave taking the body off and having a look, fingers crossed something has just come out of place. If I have any luck I'll try and get some pictures on, albeit I know they take a while for approval and hence why I kicked off with a text only post.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

If it is the X.03 motor, then the motor would be secured into the metal chassis block by two tabs at the 'front' end of the motor fitting into two slots in the chassis.

 

The rear (magnet) end of the motor is secured by a screw through a loop in the motor bottom plate, behind the magnet.

 

Do not touch the screw head on top of the magnet, as this has a nut on the bottom, and holds the Magnet into the motor, and the top and bottom plates in position.

 

A metal 'V' shaped 'spring' is fitted to this screw head.

 

One side, usually the right hand side, looking from the magnet end, has an insulating sleeve on it.

 

This side should have the feed wire from the chassis pick ups, fitted with a small shaped plate, between the brass part of the right hand brush and the fibre board brush holder plate.

 

To remove the motor, first ease the spring on the right side to free off the feed wire.

 

Be careful, as the brushes can fall out.

 

Release the spring, to hold the brushes in place, if they haven't fallen out.

 

The brushes simply slot into the brush holder plate from the bottom, being held in position by the shaped top part of the brass part of the brush engaging with the brush holder plate, and the brush spring (V), with the insulating sleeve being in position to isolate the brush spring from the brush.

 

Then remove the rear motor securing screw, noting that it may have a wire attached to a washer/tag.

 

This would be the suppression capacitor, probably inside a black 'pipe' to keep the bare wires insulated. The capacitor itself is probably a small yellowish square with two bare wires coming from it. This is wired between the feed wire, and the chassis block, to suppress sparking, and therefore interference.

 

The rear of the motor is lifted, and then pulled back to free off the tabs, and then can be lifted clear.

 

On the front of the motor there is a worm.

 

This is a cylinder, with a spiral ridge.

 

On the X.03 motor this should be a black plastic worm.

 

This worm engages with a gear wheel on the centre driving axle.

This gear is probably a silver grey colour.

 

The commutator is the brass cylinder, split into three sections by grooves, in front of the armature (three sections, wound with thin wire) and behind the front plate, behind the worm.

 

The two brushes bear onto the commutator, and take electric current from the pick ups to the armature, and from the armature, to the other brush, to the uninsulated side of the brush spring (V), and so to the metal chassis block, the axles, and the uninsulated driving wheels. (The wheels on the pick up side are insulated by plastic bushes, visible around the axle ends. The centre wheels are often insulated both sides.)

 

As the motor spins, different sections of the commutator are in contact with the brushes, changing the polarity, and therefore magnetic field, of the armature windings.

This is what makes the motor spin.

 

The commutator needs to be kept clean.

 

Carefully, as there are thin wires soldered on to the rear of the sections.

 

A cotton bud can be used, with care, and avoid any loose cotton fibres getting stuck to the motor.

 

The grooves should also be clean.

 

A cocktail stick, or similar can be used to gently Scrape accumulated carbon from the brushes out of the grooves.

 

Carefully, to avoid damaging the thin wires and the armature windings, scrape from the back towards the front. Don't overdo it.

 

The brushes should never be allowed to come into contact with oil, as it will soften the carbon blocks.

 

Oil contaminated brushes can coat the commutator in carbon, and fill the grooves, leading to the motor not running, or running badly.

 

Replacement brushes have now been made by Peter's Spares, other sources are also available.

 

I hope that lot is useful! 😉