Points pins

[CaNNoN_1981]

Hi all,

Still new to model railways and currently only weeks into my new build, but I'm going to be looking to convert my analogue Hornby Trakmat to DCC in the near future. I've added the hornby points pins to all the points in diagram where there is a circle and everything operates fine, I have power to all the sidings no matter which way the points face, however adding point pins to the last set of points marked X everything shorts out and I lose power to the whole set until I remove them, any idea why? (The power is connected via a R8206 at the very bottom of the diagram.) Thanks in advance.

/media/tinymce_upload/c5c9913e7444debb4e5167b1816cd601.jpg

[graham_bartram]

What do you mean by 'point pins'?

[STG]

If you have R8232 point clips, they should only be placed between the contact rail and the rail, not between the two contact/moving rails - that will cause a short

[96RAF]

It is assumed by pins you mean clips that look like bent staples.

 

Either you have fitted the clip to that point wrong (see picture) or more likely the point is faulty. You can prove the clips by removing them from that point - has the problem gone or if it is still there by swapping the point with another point or by checking continuity with a multi-meter.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/b07113e0f91015b284797173d02c90dd.png

[Chrissaf]

Faulty points is not unknown and have been documented on the forum before. The known and documented fault, would create a short when DCC Point Clips (not pins) are installed. Particularly when the point in question feeds into two sidings such as point X.

.

If the point has the fault described in the link, then the short wont show up on any point at location X when used 'as is'. But will show up when the DCC Point Clips are added.

.

The known point short circuit fault is described here:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/loop-siding-short-circuit-problem/?p=1/#post-231478

.

I think I may have advised this before in one of your previous posts, but in case not, I repeat it here:

.

The R8206 is designed for DC Analogue. If you upgrade the layout to Digital DCC later, the R8206 needs to be replaced with a Digital R8241 or modified to remove the DC Analogue suppression capacitor under the cover between the rails.

[CaNNoN_1981]

Apologies all, I'm still getting used to all the terminologies, yes I mean the Hornby point clips, I'm definately placing them in the correct position (same as RAF96s image) on the points as everything works apart from one siding.

Well while I was testing the other night removing the point clips from the far right siding marked X it did indeed fix the issue, and to test further I swapped the points from the siding into the main loop and the issue followed them.

So I'm assuming from your comments dodgy points? didn't even know you could get dodgy points, they were brand new out of the extension pack box.

Can they be fixed or do they need returning?

[CaNNoN_1981]

Hi Chris

The R8241 is on my wish list when I upgrade to the Select, thanks

[Chrissaf]

Can they be fixed or do they need returning?

.

It is possible, but it really depends on exactly where the short is. The location of the short will be under the point in the area directly under the frog location. This is where the bypass wires for the two rails that ingress and egress the frog cross over each other. The two wires may be buried in the plastic moulding and therefore the actual short is not physically visible. Digging out the plastic to reveal the short for repair, may be more hassle than it is worth and cause even greater damage.

.

It is very much a case of trying to fix it yourself, or just buy a new replacement point. Personally, although you could send back the whole track pack just for one point, I would just buy a 'one off' replacement point on its own, and chalk it up to experience.

[CaNNoN_1981]

Thanks Chris, also just to clarify... am i ok using the point clips on my analogue layout until I go DCC or is it not recommended?

The inner loop siding and top siding are working perfectly fine with the clips in place, the 4 sets of points at the bottom of the track all working perfectly with the clips, it literally is just the far right set of points within the siding that appears to be giving me the issue.

[Chrissaf]

The limitation of using DCC Point Clips on a DC Analogue layout is that you can only operate a single locomotive on the layout. If you place a second locomotive on the layout they will both move together and you won't be able to electrically isolate either of the two locomotives, if you only want one of them to move.

[CaNNoN_1981]

Thanks Chris, understood. I wont be purchasing a second loco until after I get the select anyway.

[Rog RJ]

I would contact Hornby customer service and explain the problem and see if they can help with a replacement point.  This is a known problem and I would expect them to be able to help.

[CaNNoN_1981]

So just to confuse things I've tested swapping over the 'top' siding points with the 'right' siding points (thought to be faulty) and it appeared to work ok, so I've put everthing back to how it should be in regards to the trakmat setup "with point clips" on all points and everything is now working.

Sorry for wasting everyones time, I've no explaination as to why its now suddenly working?!?!

[Chrissaf]

The 'short' on the faulty point is probably intermittent and your disturbing the point moved something to remove the short. Just be aware that the clearance of the fault may just be temporary ... it may return when the weight of trains start to move over the suspect point. Personally, I would still change it as it is a proven future fault liability.