Fish plates

[Molly Catchpole]

Hi we're brand new to Hornsby trains and have inherited some old track, accessories and some fantastic trains. The old track has fishplate connectors to the right side whilst bits of newer tracks has connectors to the left. Are the plates interchangeable?? I need a power track and some points. Thankyou.

[Howbi]

Welcome to the Forum..........new track comes with one fishplate per rail fitted to opposing ends as per photo...

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but sometimes, when track is pulled apart a fishplate can stick to the wrong rail so, with fine nose pliers, should be pulled off and refitted to the correct rail. You can easily purchase a pack of fishplates in your chosen scale as spares.

 

For the power track you have a choice of DC (analogue) or DCC (digital) and regarding points again a choice of Insulating or Electrofrog.

 

To assist your foray into this hobby I would recommend you read Chrissaf's advice here......https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/track-extension-pack-guide/?p=1 

The guide is a download to your computer, probably into your 'downloads'  folder

 HB

[Chrissaf]

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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Particularly as the reply above includes an image, using the 'Blue Button' may result in your reply being held back for image approval, even though it is an existing image.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[Rog RJ]

I think the OP is referring to the old Super 4 track being different to System 6 track where the location of the fishplates are opposite handed.  There was a converter track available, R476, but these are now only available second hand.  The size of the rails is different too.  Sorry, I posted a link to R476 on ebay but the link failed

 

Try Again  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Triang-Hornby-R476-converter-track-Super-4-to-System-6-OO-Gauge-VGC/373084195420?hash=item56dd8d0a5c:g:FSkAAOSwS8he53vo

[Rog RJ]

Nope, link is duff.

[atom3624]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Triang-Hornby-R476-converter-track-Super-4-to-System-6-OO-Gauge-VGC/373084195420?hash=item56dd8d0a5c:g:FSkAAOSwS8he53vo

[Chrissaf]

Rog, just so you know why your link failed for future reference. It was a copy 'n' pasting error.

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Your original URL link was/is:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/fish-plates/%20https:/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Triang-Hornby-R476-converter-track-Super-4-to-System-6-OO-Gauge-VGC/373084195420?hash=item56dd8d0a5c:g:FSkAAOSwS8he53vo

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atom's corrected URL link is:

https:/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Triang-Hornby-R476-converter-track-Super-4-to-System-6-OO-Gauge-VGC/373084195420?hash=item56dd8d0a5c:g:FSkAAOSwS8he53vo

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You can see that the difference is that your original link is a combined amalgamation of two URLs

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/fish-plates/%20

 

sequentially and directly followed by

 

https:/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Triang-Hornby-R476-converter-track-Super-4-to-System-6-OO-Gauge-VGC/373084195420?hash=item56dd8d0a5c:g:FSkAAOSwS8he53vo

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This generated a '404 Page not found' error on the Hornby.com site.

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Before you say that your post doesn't show the hornby.com bit at the beginning, you are correct it doesn't show in the displayed text in the post. But if you hover the cursor over it to see the actual underlying URL link that the browser will actually act upon, then the hornby.com bit is there.

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You could have corrected the error by highlighting your URL text and clicking the 'chain link' icon to open the URL in edit mode. And then removing the hornby.com prefix bit.

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If using FireFox, the URL link when hovering the cursor is displayed at the very bottom of the 'FireFox' Window. Other browsers and platforms may handle the displaying of underlying URLs differently.

[Rana Temporia]

Your track with the fishplates on the right could be Super 4 (brown sleepers), Series 3 (Black sleepers, widely spaced) or Standard track which has a raised grey or silver grey base. All have much deeper rail section than modern track and can only be connected using the special connector rail referred to previously. The super 4 track has the same geometry as the modern track, the other two are completely different. All are obsolete and only obtainable second hand or new old stock. 

It's likely that some of your trains will run better on the old track as they probably have quite deep flanges on the wheels. 

[Rog RJ]

@Chrisaf

 

I was, and still am, on an Android tablet and these link errors can be rather hard to spot and occasionally extremely difficult to fix.  This is particularly difficult on this forum, where amending just one character can lead to a following word being corrupted.   You can delete this reply if you wish.

[LCDR]

Mixing track from different periods and different manufacturers can be quite tricky and these are the pitfalls and tips.

 

1.-  Rail section can be different.

Old Tri-ang track  which includes Standard and Universal track with grey solid base, Series 3 with black plastic base and wide open sleepers, and Super 4 with deep brown sleepers, will couple together but will not couple to more modern rails or contemporary track systems like Hornby Dublo or Wrenn without adaptor rails. Tri-ang used a very heavy steel section which required special fishplates.

 

Modern track including Hornby's use Code 100 flat bottom rail  will connect to other modern Code 100 track, such as Bachmann and Peco and at a pinch to older systems such as Wrenn, Formoway and some Continental makes but sleeper heights will vary, so packing may be needed between track of different makes. Peco and other manufacturers also make track with rails of different codes. The code equates to 10th of an inch, therefore code 100 is 1/10 of an inch tall. Other common codes are 83 (0.83 of an inch) use widely abroad, and 75 (0.75 inch) for fine scale track. 

 

Most common train set track uses flat bottom rail where the rail foot is wider than the head. Fine scale track can also be obtained in 'bullhead' section where the head is bigger than the foot.

 

2. Track Geometry can be different

Early Tri-ang track (Universal and Series 3) used a geometry based upon a wider spacing between parallel tracks which was 9.2 cm (3.625”)  provided by a pair of points of equal hand. Curves were of 34.3 cm (13.5”) small and 43.5 cm (17.125”) large radius. 12 curves were needed to make a circle. Straights were 18.4 cm (7.25”) long. When using points as a crossover to connect an inner and outer circuit short ¼ straights were necessary to bring the track ends parallel. ¼ and 1/8 straights were available to help adjust the layout geometry. (length 17/8” and 15/16” respecively). Points incorporated small radius curves.

 

Tri-ang Super 4 used a narrower interval between parallel tracks, 6.6cm (2.625”), curves were  of 37.2cm (14.625”) and 43.8 cm (17.25”) radius and straights were based on 16.8cm (6.625”) basic length with 33.5 cm  and 67 cm lengths available. 16 curves were needed to make a circle but double curves were available for which 8 only were needed. Only a short (almost ¼” ) straight (3.8cm) was needed to adjust geometry, and wasn’t need to compensate for crossovers. Points incorporated second radius curves. Super 4 introduced the Wye point.

 

Hornby Dublo three rail used 38.1 cm (15.0”) for the inner radius and 43.9cm ( 17.285”) for the outer radius. 8 full curves were needed for a circle, A standard 3 rail straight was 11.5 “, and a half straight was 5.75”.

 

Hornby Dublo two rail track curves came in two different varieties 8 for a circle (part no 2709) or 12 for a circle (part no. 2710} half curves for the latter were available. Two rail straight rail was 8.625” long. A 2/3 and 1/3 straight (5.75” and 2.875” respectively) were also available. Hornby Dublo points also maintained parallel ends on adjacent tracks when used as a crossover.

 

Series 6 track from Hornby followed broadly the Super 4 geometry with 37.1cm for First radius, 43.8 for second radius, 50.5 cm for third radius and 57.2 cm for fourth radius. 8 double curves make a circle or 16 half curves. Straights are based on a 16.8 cm basic unit.

 

3. Fishplates (AKA Rail Joiners), handing.

The position of the rail joiner will differ between different makes or ages of similar track. This need not be a problem because these can normally be removed and replaced on the other side. However some track systems spot welded their fishplates to the rail which makes them difficult to remove.

 

4 Track not included in Train Sets.

There are other makes of track intended for scale or semi-scale layout building but which can be used with train set track to create layouts. To use it, normally it will be necessary to adjust the geometry using flexible track cut and bent to shape. Older versions included Wrenn, which used a fibre sleeper base, and Formoway by Graham Farish OO which used a soft plastic sleeper base. Nowadays Peco is the chief maker of non-train set track systems.

[Molly Catchpole]

Thankyou for all the info some of it very confusing but informative. Did get the answer I needed that some plates can be removed but some can't! Have about a thousand pounds worth of track which may be useless

[LCDR]

In short you are right, most fishplates can be removed quite easily, but a few other will require a bit of fiddling. 

 

You can buy replacement fishplates for the common code 199 track quite easily , Hornby and Peco sell them, and a good pair of pliers will probably be the only tool you need. 

 

One of the bigger problems with older track is not the fishplates, but that the older rails are made of plated steel. If you track has been stored in warm dry conditions it should be OK, but if has got damp, even only slightly and has gone rusty the best place for it is in the bin.