DCC sound loco have I been cheated.

[Chrissaf]

I purchase a while ago a Hornby class 60. The box said it was Digital sound and I realised it was several years old but looked perfect. I've now tried the loco on a dc test track and the loco works as do the lights but no sound. I opened up the loco and was shocked to see a dais 21 pin to 8 pin converter and a tts chip. No where on the advert did it say the loco had been converted and it even came with the Digital sound paperwork which says there should be a esu 3.5 chip.

Have I been cheated?

Paul

[Chrissaf]

It would have really helped to give you a definitive answer if you had stated the full product R code number.

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Only Rxxxx numbers that end in XS are supposed to have ESU decoders.

Rxxxx numbers that end in T are TTS

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You said you purchased a product that was several years old, but you have given no indication where from. Was it a shop, was it a private individual. If it was a shop, was it sold as 'new' stock or 'previously owned'.

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If it wasn't sold as 'brand new sealed' shop / retailer stock, then I would say 'buyer beware'.

[96RAF]

The only Hornby locos fitted with 21 pin sockets are the ...XS factory fitted (ESU) sound models Chris spoke about.

[Bulleidboy]

It could be "Hornby R3267XS Transrail Skiddaw Diesel Electric Class 60-60005 Sound DCC Fitted" - prior to someone converting it to TTS? I don't know how many versions (liveries) Hornby produced.

[ColinB]

Perhaps the original sound unit died and the owner decided to replace it with the cheaper option, I don't know if ESU do the same deal as Zimo for replacing broken units. Then later on someone gets it and assumes it is standard. I suppose the more burning issue is why does the sound not work. From my experience second hand locos are a minefield. Sometimes you get a good deal, occasionally you get a lemon. Why it is it when you complain, it is always "I am selling it for a mate" which immediately fills you full of suspicion.

[GWR 14xx Tank]

I've now tried the loco on a dc test track and the loco works as do the lights but no sound. 

 

If you ran the DCC loco on DC power, doesn't this mean that the sound won't work? I thought DCC locos have to be on AC power to be able to produce the sound, not DC. I don't dabble in DCC much, so correct me if I am wrong.

 

14xx Tank

[Rog RJ]

Many sound decoders produce basic sounds on dc.  TTS decoders don't.

[Chrissaf]

GWR,

TTS sound decoders are incapable of producing any sounds under DC. But this is not the case with ESU Loksound decoders. They CAN produce the basic engine running sound, but not any of the 'spot sounds' when powered on a DC layout. This, I believe, is the crux of the reason for Paul's question.

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I have a Hornby 08 Class XS shunter with an ESU Loksound 3.5 decoder in it. It quite happily trundles round my friends DC Analogue layout with its Diesel engine running. Of course the limitation is that the sound stops when he halts the loco at a signal for example. Then you have to wait for the start up sounds to complete before it will move off again. So in my mind, sound on DC is a bit of a gimmick rather than a usable feature.

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[ColinB]

Zimo sound decoders do the same, limited sound on DC. Both ESU Loksound and Zimo decoders are substantially more expensive than TTS decoders, so obviously do more. Really to get the best out of sound you have to go DCC. He is lucky it runs on DC a lot of TTS decoders don't.

[GWR 14xx Tank]

Thanks for correcting me, all. As I say, I don't do DCC much. Just a thought.

 

14xx Tank

[paul_bridger]

I have now tried the class 60 (eastern ews box r number with xs and says digital sound not digital tts sound) on dcc. Sound does work. 

I have another ews (hundreds of hoe)60 xs model which differently has a esu 3.5. The different between the 2 is not that great, but not having sound under dc is disappointing.

Interestingly when F1 pressed to turn sound off on the esu fitted one sound cuts off straight away, on the tts one the sound dies down gradually over 25 seconds which actually I prefer.

I did purchase this loco via eBay, I will be kind and assume the seller had bought it already converted to tts and did not know when he sold it to me. He described it as dcc sound. I had tested it on dcc when I received it and assumed it was correct, I now know better and will check decoders when I receive them in future.

I have been cheated, the item is not as Hornby made it, it is a lesser product because of some unscrupulous git. But it does work under dcc and look like new.

[Chrissaf]

I did purchase this loco via eBay,................. He described it as dcc sound.

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I suppose you could say that the 'seller's' description is technically correct. Even with a TTS decoder fitted, it is technically a 'DCC' and a 'Sound' loco.

[ColinB]

I have bought a few things on EBay that were not exactly as described. The thing I tend to do, is think is it worth what I paid for it? Sometimes we think we are getting a good deal only to be dissapointed. I bought a Stanier tank engine bottom half (I wanted the pickups), no body, only to find when it arrived that it was just a combination of worn out spares cobbled to gether to look good in the photo. More importantly there were no pickups. Trouble is you don't want to ask because the other buyers see the response and it pushes the price up.To me, I only sell stuff I would be happy with, bad feedback can completely destroy any chance of selling anything else. As to the Fowler bottom half, fortunately the chassis was ok so I built another one with the cheap Chinese motor and made my own pickups from other parts supplied as spares by Hornby. It is always a big risk buying locos with sound units, as you never know if the electronics has issues. Just look at the posts on this site and you can see many unexplained issues with sound units.

Generally, unless it is new, pay not much more than what you think the loco on its own is worth, if the sound unit or DCC decoder works then it is a bonus. 

[Bulleidboy]

On two occasions I have contacted an ebay seller, to tell them that what they are selling is not what is being described. In both situations the seller thanked me and corrected the description. I was not buying. 

[ColinB]

Yes, i have done the same, some people genuinely don't know, but then others are trying to pull a fast one. Quite othen Skaledate northen stations come up, they are listed as Goathland station, because that fetches more, I even bought one at the North York Moors model shop wrongly labelled and you would have thought they would know, it is on their line. It wasn't until I saw the original I realised.