R 2686 A Black 5 Tender Body Removal for TTS.

[james_harper]

I'm trying to add an R8114 TTS Decoder Black 5 Class to the R2686A loco but find it impossible to remove the body of the Tender.  The few screws on the underside only seem to serve to take the wheels off the chassis and I think the chassis removal but offer no help in getting he body off.  Bending, squeezing and prising at the edges of the body only seem to cause damage so don't want to continue.  A call to Hornby Hornby Customer Care didn't give any help.

I had wanted to make the loco DCC, TTS would have been an added bonus.  Is the R2686A just not compatible with adding the R8114?  I had wanted to convert a few models to DCC but my novice enthusiasm has taken a big dent with what seems Mission Impossible.  Help and guidance please.

[Rog RJ]

This is for a different model but may also apply to yours

 

 

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[atom3624]

If you do this, take care not to 'ping' the vacuum pipe somewhere never to be found, if attached - I've done this before!

 

Al.

[ColinB]

They sometimes get stuck. My Black Five R3805 has one screw at the front, not two as described, so check which type you have? On mine here is a plastic hook at the the back of the tender if I am right, and looking at the decription it looks about right. Make sure the screw/screws are fully out, in case it gets stuck on one thread at the end , now carefully wobble it and pull backwards. Be ever so careful, or else you will break the hook. I remember mine was tight, as have been many, you have to be so careful in case the detail bits fall off. This is always the difficult bit.

[Going Spare]

Service sheet 257E covers this loco.  As illustrated, there do not appear to be any likely screw holes in the chassis frame but there are what might be in the large flat weight (although no screws are shown).  These would be accessible by removing the 'coal'.

Correction: having read Colin's post, there is a screw at the front of the chassis, between the pin and the steps

[96RAF]

See here for maintenance sheet (MS) for Black 5 which includes the TTS tender variant...

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/download/item/188

The MS shows how to get into the beast and how to lube it, whereas the Service Shert (SS) is more or less a simple parts list.

[james_harper]

I want to say how grateful I am for all of the excellent responses.  On the plus side, ColinB's advice was spot on, I had the one screw to remove, a bit of a wobble and the body slid off.  Sadly, there are no provisions for anything to be seen.  Just a couple of cables coming from a metal plate at the coupling post down to the middle wheels.

The MS that RAF96 posted shows what I wanted to have seen i.e. an internal set-up for TTS installation.  Seems that the model I have only suits a possible replacement of the PCB in the loco to allow the "DCC Ready" model to go digital.

Maybe with help, at a later date, I'll be able to master the workings of a soldering iron without burning myself too often to be able to hard wire extensions to the speaker cables and allow locating the speaker inside the tender.

It's been a very good learning curve.  Next time, I'll be opening the loco and tender and see what's inside first.

I've been very lucky to pick-up a good few models, at very good prices, from a friend who's father passed away a couple of years back and left loads of models for me to appreciate and enjoy.  I'll now focus on the more simple DCC conversions and run my factory fitted TTS models alongside.  I now have so many models and I think that some will stay analogue, just as my friend's dad preferred, but running off a Hornby DC controller.

Thanks again for all your comments and guidance.

Jim

[96RAF]

I would suggest there is probably enough room to stand a small cube speaker on the front of the loco chassis with the decoder stuffed into the smoke box.

 

This is a Merchant Navy so rigged...

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[ColinB]

From my experience don't ever take the loco body off unless you are absolutely sure that the DCC ready socket is in there. There are so many delicate parts on a modern loco that you risk them falling off, I have broke many speedo drives where I forgot that it is attached to the wheels and the body and that is why it won't pull off. A good guide I have found as to whether the DCC socket is in loco or tender is to see if there is a four way lead between loco and tender, if it is just the two way or the drawbar with "fingers" on it then the DCC socket is in the loco. RAF96 is right TTS probably will fit in the loco if you use a sugar cube speaker, I did that with many of my locos.

[james_harper]

To RAF96 & Colin.  Thanks agan for your unput.  I opended the loco last night, a bit tight for my clumsy hands, terrified of what damage I could do, I think it's the vacuum pipes that are exposed to me wrecking.  I think that I'll add a basic decoder and look around my models for a suitable tender to put the TTS chip and speaker in.  Probably a horror to some but I opened up an old R3015 Princess Royal Class last night to get it digital and who knows.  It's supposed to be sound ready but I think it still needs some thinking to get the speaker fitted.  Thanks again.

[96RAF]

Have a look here James, you may get some clues...

http://www.halton96th.org.uk/ttsdownload.html

[ColinB]

What I did with a couple of my Duchess locos was to just buy the newer tender bottom, I don't know if they do the tender bottom for the Black 5, and the 4 way lead. Then you can move the electronics to the tender. Have a search through Peter's Spares to get ideas.

[james_harper]

Rob,  I've downloaded your excellent TTS document with descriptions and illustrations; sure I'll be visiting it many times from now on.

Colin, My Duchesss now sounds like a Black 5.  Getting the speaker to fit underneath the weight was proving to be too difficult, most likely that I'd dislodge some cabling, which was always the nightmare waiting to happen.  I sat the decoder over the socket with some tape under the decoder, lots of tape around the edges of the decoder and speaker to secure them both to the plastic mountings, leaving the top of the decoder uncovered for breathing. The loco and tender now move and, to a novice like me, sounds grand, much like my pre-fitted TTS models.  No doubt I've taken some long winded and unadviseable short-cuts but lets see.

I had wished for but didn't realise that you could buy new tender bottoms, that sounds like a way to go in future.  Like much in life, it's all in the planning.

I've ordered an 8-pin chip, Hornby version, to get the Black 5 digital.  Can buy them cheaper but not certain to work with a Select.  Much like bread that may not work with raspberry jam, buy different bread.  If all goes well this weekend then I'll call it a win.  That said, after a cooling-off period, I'm looking forward to some much better planned TTS conversions.

Now to also consider connecting an analogue and a separate DCC controller to my track at the same time, another quandry....

Thanks again,

Jim

[96RAF]

Your Select firmware needs to be at a certain revision to work well with TTS. 

If yours is an early state then Hornby can update it by return to works for £18 incl VAT and one way P&P.

 

To determine the firmware version installed on your Select observe the screen at start up - it will show 1x then 30 then 03 where 1x is the firmware version (e.g. 12 = V1.2, 15 = V1.5), 30 is the hardware version and 03 is the default locomotive decoder address indicating the Select is ready to use.

Please note that year 2020 facelift versions of the Select will show v2.0. This is functionally identical to v1.6 on pre-face lift versions.

 

Version 1.0 - Initial release. Point and accessory addresses start at 60 in order to use all groups of four up to last address 99. Able to control functions 0-4.

 

Version 1.1 - Point and accessory addresses now start at 61 through 99 to accord with NMRA addressing groups. Users upgrading from v1.0 should readdress all their points and accessory addresses to the new system. Able to control functions 0-8. Able to program on the main (POM).

 

Version 1.2 - Improved throttle interface. Changes to setting up default direction switching. Resume operations after a power down/restart. Fix for a bug that puts an R8247 PAD into port flutter possibly leading to failure of that device.

 

Version 1.3 - Programming improved for ESU Loksound v4.0 sound decoders.

 

Version 1.4 - Minor update to correct function control issues.

 

Version 1.5 - Major system upgrade to extend function range 0-28 in support of sound decoders. Change to function methodology. User manual updated.

 

Version 1.6 - Major system update to allow CV’s to be changed and provide improved overload protection. Addendum to the user manual produced.

 

Note that v1.6 is functionally the same as v2.0 installed on late 2019 facelift versions of the Select.

[james_harper]

Rob,

I've got a 15 30 03 start-up.  I vaguly remember getting this version installed a while back.

Presumably without Version 1.6 I'm missing out on the CV's and overload protection (Yes, the latter would be very useful).  Although I tend to use my Digitrax DCS51 controller if I'm trying to alter CV's.  It's rarely that I look to change CV's as I've found it to be a reliable source of regret if I try to meddle too much.

Perhaps tomorrow I'll try and write a new decoder address to the TTS we've been discussing in this post as my Select failed to do that earlier today.  I'll sleep on it but will probably get the Select checked over and updated.  I'd like to but can't justify upgrading to an Elite when I've got a load of DCC conversions, restarting a new layout board and planning another home move to get on with.

Thanks again, hope you have a great weekend.

Jim

[ColinB]

One thing I would suggest if you are fitting the speaker in the tender, there is this guy in Leeds on Fleabay that sells very small Iphone speakers, not only do they fit easily in the tender but they sound pretty good. They are really thin, so fit under the bunket which most speakers won't, I use them all the time. Not only that but they are really easy to insulate.