Class 58 Motor not available

[9F collector]

 

Have tried a X3409 yellow worm changed to a black from the 58s motor but it is running slow e.g controller is a h&m put on track and ran it full power on the dial and it ran a half the speed as a class 25 (wizzed around the track)

Will a Class J94 Motor & Worm fit a Class 58 as it has a metal Worm not sure of the thread

[atom3624]

I have noticed that some Hornby motors appear to be made to be slower running / rev slower.

Perhaps they're higher voltage rated.

 

Ones I've noticed relates to the brush-holding cap on the motor - some are black, some dark grey, some light grey.

I suspect this may simply relate to era - date of manufacture, but also to the speed rating.

 

There are bound to be compatible motors - Hornby 66?

When talking about meshing - worms, etc - when running 'slowly' is the motor getting very hot / meshing too tight.

 

Is it possible to gap it slightly - small R/Control or slot car shims for example?

 

Al.

[ColinB]

I would have thought if you had the wrong worm drive it wouldn't mesh properly with the crown gear (I think that is what they call it). The motor looks exactly the same as fitted into the range of 0-6-0 locos and amazingly they are really cheap from Hornby, I have just ordered 3. Slow running I would have thought would be more of a motor issue. Lendons also do the bare motor, it comes with a brass worm which looks a bit finer than the black one, so you might have to take it off and put the black one on.Have you tried turning the motor by hand just to check that it is meshing properly, if it is not meshing properly that might be why it is running slow.

[9F collector]

Have tried that even bought a motor from them but was unable b to remove the brass  worm without destroying the motor

[Going Spare]

If your loco is an early model with the motor sitting flat and a gear train held in place by a retaining arm (service sheet 137), it will run much slower than later versions because that series of small gear wheels uses up so much of the motor's energy even when well lubricated.  The only solution is to substitute one of the later motor bogies (service sheets 137B and 219) with the motor sitting on its side and the gears held in place with individual screws.

[9F collector]

The motor is the latter type

[ColinB]

Yes, getting the worm off is an issue. I broke 2 extractors doing one of mine. The plastic ones come off quite easy, the brass ones I think you need to wrap them in a boiling water bandage and then try (the brass expands more than the steel). Alternately buy a Thomas the tank engine one off Peters Spares/EBay, they have a blue plasic worm that comes off quite easy with an extractor.

[96RAF]

My brand new robust extractor broke on the first attempt trying to remove the flywheel from a motor shaft. The motor has now been totally dismantled and the shaft driven with a hefty hammer and steel drift over a sturdy vice and it still won't move.

 

The motor I needed the flywheel for now has a bit of sticky tape as a rotational indicator and speed limiter.

 

I now have to find a way of drilling the broken mandrel to take a slightly reduced <2 mm diameter insert cut from a bit of hard stainless steel rod.

[ColinB]

@RAF96 With one of the extractors I broke, I had to put it into the lathe drill a new 2mm hole and then buy a length of 2mm silver steel, I think the original pin was made of some cheap alloy. I think the wrapping it in a very hot bandage is the best idea. The guy on the web that sells motors suggested it and then I remembered to shift tight pistons on my classic bike, that is what I do. The advantage of the hot compress is it does not melt the plastic.

The big issue is alignment, all the extractors they sell assume that you get it perfectly aligned then it doesn't take much effort to pull it off, so they seem to be made of cheap alloy. When I did eventually get the worm to move, I heard a sharp crack, indicating they it must have been really tight. As I said previously, the plastic ones come off quite easy.

[Going Spare]

My post suggesting checking free rotation of the gears and wheels appears to have been removed.  Any reason?

[ColinB]

I don't know why your post was removed, but that was exactly what I was saying he should do.

[Rana Temporia]

I think this was a pretty standard motor at the time, Thomas has been mentioned but I think the Jinty and possibly some of the other 060 locos had it. 

 

I had a couple that the brass connections came away from the motor on my two 58s for no apparent reason. I wonder if it's due to friction in the gear trains causing the motors to overheat? 

 

Of interest may be that the chsssis block fits the class 47 bogie frame that was around at the time and although the wheel spacing is slightly different I had a couple of spare 58 motor bogies I got in a job lot that I replaced some broken ringfield units with. It might be possible to do it the other way round? 

[Going Spare]

Unfortunately the standard Ringfield drive unit can not be used in the 58 (unless you have very large radius curves) because the narrow body inboard of the cabs does not allow a Ringfield drive unit to pivot sufficiently.

So your post was also removed, Colin?

The motor Hornby used was ok for 0-6-0s, Pacers, Networkers, etc., particularly when uprated, but the energy absorbed by the 58's gear train undoubtedly put much strain on the motor, hence modellers seeking to double-motor the loco or substitute other types.

[ColinB]

Yes Rana, you are right that motor seems to power all the 0-6-0, I only mentioned Thomas as it is probably the only one you can get spares for. The only thing that concerns me is did they change the work drive? Hornby carried lots of parts, between locos trouble is knowing which parts. It is always easier to adapt parts rather than develop them from scratch and I suspect Hornby are no different. I recently found that the drive gears for a Fowler tank (which you cannot get) are the same as for an A1 (which you can).

[96RAF]

My post suggesting checking free rotation of the gears and wheels appears to have been removed.  Any reason?

 

Could have been finger trouble at my end GS. I had posted a couple of duplicates by mistake as the internet was running slow and may have dumped your post as I was dumping mine.

[Going Spare]

Thanks for 'owning-up' Rob.  I have to admit making a number of duplicate posts because there is nothing to say your post has been accepted and is being processed if it doesn't appear quickly - as & when the forum software is being updated, could this perhaps be put forward for consideration?

[96RAF]

It does seem to be a Hornby forum thing as I never see the problem on other forums including RM Web which can plod a bit.