Point Direction Indicators

[Steamplug]

Hi all, I have a few Hornby points on hidden sidings powered by pm2 point motors. Are there any simple led type indicators out there or better still DIY electrical diagrams to build something which will show me if the point has physically thrown as occasionally the motors do not fire correctly?

[Steamplug]

Slight edit they are PM1 motors working the points not PM2's

[JemBobs]

Hello

 

I have done a lot of googling for myself and I have found this.  :)

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[Flashbang]

Hi

You have posted this in the DCC section of the forum, therefore I have to assume the PM1 solenoid motors are being feed from a DCC Accessory Decoder?   Not as shown in the above drawing via a power supply/CDU and lever/switch etc 

 

To Note: Seep PM 1 to 4 motors are notorious for needing to be installed 100% in line with the point above. Any slight out of alignment will cause failures to operate. As too will not using the correctly sized operation and return wires to pads A, B and C. 16/0.2mm equipment wire is the minimum. 

Accessory decoders cannot normally be adjusted for their output and while many have built in CDUs they do need a couple of seconds to reach a fully recharge state after each operation, so do allow a small time period between each move. (Note this also applies to conventional CDUs too!)

You need to think about how you want the panel indications to be feed.  There are several options...

From the DCC system or via a totally separate power source such as 12 volts DC is one such. Next how you want to switch the LEDs On/Off.  

You can use the Seep PM1 change over contacts feed from a separate power source. As per part of the drawing above but be cautious as only two series resistors are shown for all the LEDs! Better to have one LED and one series resistor IMO. The alternative would be to use 12 volt rated LEDs which have a built in resistor factory fitted.  Or the DCC systems power and the points switch blades position can be used to feed LEDs.   

Next is to use a latching relay and via the latching relays contacts feed the LEDs. Such units are sold ready  made, Gaugemaster and Brimal are two examples.  However, as I said at the beginning, I have made the assumption your points are operated by DCC accessory decoders, if so then the Gaugemaster unit is their GM500D, but if your not using an Accessory decoder and powering the motors conventionally then the Gaugemaster GM500 is the one to use. Brimal is their MR204. 

If you're using DCC then some makes of Accessory Decoders have the options of feeding panel LED form their internal circuitry.  The Hornby one doesn't allow this feature.

Note: You cannot use DC rail power to feed LEDs only DCC (Digital) rail power.

My web sites offers many examples of how to illuminate LEDs for point position indications including using separate power or DCC power. Worth perhaps a half hour reviewing the various pages? https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/   Such as here for example... https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_3.html#Bookmark6

 

Post edited to add text.

 

[ColinB]

I toyed with this idea for a while, you can get circuits that you put in line with the bank of points switches that will basically latch the signal and drive an LED. A guy on EBay was doing them. The problem I have is that I want to know the actual point has switched and the only way I can see to do that is to put something across one of the ouput tracks to tell if there is voltage there. You could probably do it with a bridge rectifier connected to one side of the turnout which would drive an LED. On the Peco Electrofog points with the frog wire you could probably use that.

[5Dublo2]

You could possibly fix a microswitch next to the operation bar so that when the bar moves against it, it turns on an LED,  May take a bit of trail and error for exactly where to position it and if using surface mount motors it would have to be on the opposite side. 

[ColinB]

I did actually get a guy on EBay to make me some that just clip under the PL10. He doesn't seem to be doing them at the moment.

[Flashbang]

Hi

The OP is using Seep PM1 motors, not Peco PL10 solenoid motors.   Seep PM1 and PM4 have somewhat poor SPDT change-over contact, relying on a washer pressing down via a spring onto PCB track to make the circuit from tab F to either tab D or E depending on the motors position.  This method frequently fails mainly due to poor alignment or over tightening of the PCB to the baseboard, but the contacts can be used if the Seep motor is aligned absolutely correctly to the point above.

Assuming the layout is DCC then regardless of whether the point is Insulated frog such as all Hornby points or if its an Electrofrog the point blades making contact onto the stock rail can provide the switching to illuminate LEDs!  On Insulated frog points on DCC two IRJs are needed and of course new feeds after the IRJs and the LEDs are wired like this...https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC_Page_2.html#Bookmark9   100% proving the point blade is closed correctly both ways  😎

[Steamplug]

Thanks for all the greats advice, Brian it is indeed a DCC layout so I like the idea of taking a feed direct from the rails to feedback has it mechanically switched.