Point Motors

[AndyHead78]

I will be getting a Hornby Elite to control my new layout. I don't want to use surface mounted point motors, so I was wondering what people recommend to use.

I've been looking into Gaugemaster PM-2 Seep point motors and they seem fairly simple to install. Will they work with the Elite and Hornby decoders, or is there a better option?

[Rog RJ]

They arent as easy to install as you might think, they need to be fitted very accurately to get them to work properly.  There are many accounts of people having trouble with them.

[Flashbang]

Hi

Seep PM1 to PM4 range all work well, but do need to be installed 100% in line with the point above. Failure to ensure this will frequently lead to poor operation.

Of course for DCC operation a DCC Accessory decoder is needed to interface between the DCC system and the point motor. This needs to be able to operate Solenoid point motors i.e.it has a Pulse output.  

 

You can of course operate point motors seperalty from the DCC system using a separate power supply (Ideally 16v AC or 18 to 22 v DC)  and suitable momentary switches or passing contact levers.

 

There are DCC ready operation point motors available, such as the Gaugemaster PM20D or PM10D. DCC Concepts Digital Cobalt ip and the TrainTronics TT300 are  just a few examples available

[Lyd 85B]

I fitted thirteen points with Peco solenoid point motors and switches, using a separate Gaugemaster power supply and CDU. Aligning them can be a pain, but there are several helpful videos on YouTube to help you develop the knack, and I only had to fiddle with one to get it to work smoothly. Biggest problem I found was crawling underneath the baseboard, first for fitting the motors, then to do the wiring. 

[96RAF]

If you want underboard motors then Hornby R8014 motors work well with the Elite and R8247 Point and Accesory Decoders (PADs) as the DCC interface.

[Fishmanoz]

Seeps have previously been reported to need more current than some to operate with the result you cannot connect 2 to one decoder port (as for a crossover) and have them operate reliably. Other brands you can. 

[96RAF]

Going slightly off topic but I have a point motor test board - there is a picture on the workbench thread somewhere.

This board mounts a Seep, Hornby and Peco motor on Hornby, Peco and Bachman points, along with Marklin, Fleischman and Piko points with integral motors.

I have wired this so that I can fire them individually or any two in combination. I can confirm what Fishy says as I can fire most in pairs but never two when the Seep is one of the pair.

[AndyHead78]

It looks like the SEEP point motors might not be the best option for me as I plan to have a few areas on my layout where two sets of points are operated together.

This may be a silly question, but how do you actually fit the Hornby point motor (R8014) under the baseboard? I can only find one video on YouTube for that particular PM, and it wasn't overly helpful. There are plenty of videos for other brands or surface mounted PMs, but not this one!

[Flashbang]

Seep are fine so long as they are installed 100% correctly.  Wired correctly too with 16/0.2mm equipment wire.

Hornby R8014 motors are designed to fit directly to the points underside and four little 'tabs' on the motors metal frame are located into slots in the point sleepers and bent over a little to lock the motor firmly tot eh point. A rectangular slot is cut in the baseboard a little larger than the motors footprint and the motor sits in this hole.  The alternative is to place the point in its final position and mark the position of the drive pin hole in the points moving tie bar when the point is moved to both positions. Remove point and drill a pair of holes centred where marked so as 2 x 4mm dia holes are drilled and then elongated to form a slot of rectangular shape. Or drill one 10 or 9mm dia hole central of the two position marks.  Bend the four tabs of the point motor outwards at right angle to the motor and using a small round headed screw and suitable washer secure each side of the motor to the baseboards undersides. The alternative is to use countersunk wood screws and screw cups.  The point motor drive pin passing up through the previously cut slot and engaging into the points tie bar above.

 

An example can be seen here if its of help? (Cant add images currently!)  www.brian-lambert.co.uk/electrical_page_3.html

[Chrissaf]

The Hornby R8014 point motor is designed to mount directly to the underside of Hornby points. The R8014 has 'lugs' than match with holes in the point moulding. Once inserted into the holes the 'lugs' are bent to hold the motor in place.

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The 'upside' [Pro] for this is that the alignment of the point motor [needed for flawless operation] is 100% perfect every time. The 'downside' [Con] for this is that firstly you have to ideally attach the point motor prior to installing the point, and secondly, that you need to create a rectangular hole in the baseboard large enough to accommodate the R8014 point motor.

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The 'alternative' is to modify the R8014 to allow it to be held in place with wood screws under the baseboard below the point location. The modification involves bending over the ends of the R8014 motor chassis (where the 'lugs' are) at 90° so that the 'lugs' can be trapped between the baseboard and a 'washer' held by a wood screw.

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The 'upside' is that you can now fit the motor after the track is laid [assumes that the hole for the operating pin was provided at the time of point installation]. The 'downside' is firstly that it now becomes necessary to spend some considerable time making sure that the point motor position and alignment is perfect, and secondly that you now have to fit the pin extender to the R8014 point motor to account for the thickness of the baseboard. The way that the extender pin is attached means that over time it can potentially become loose and floppy affecting point operation robustness.

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The alternative to the alternative, is to purchase Hornby R8015 point motor huts. Use the R8015 plastic baseplate under the baseboard and discard the hut part. The R8015 baseplate has holes to suit the R8014 'lug' fixing. This emulates the PL9 mounting plate and PL10 point motor fixing offered by PECO.

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EDIT: FB posted whilst I was typing mine.

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PS - Brian's link text does not seem to be working, it returns a 'Page not Found' error message for me. This version below does however seem to work when pasted into the browser. The problem seems to be that in Brian's text URL, the [electrical_page_3.html] bit of it is not capitalised.

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https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_3.html