Thinking about TTS Sound

[geejbee]

Hello

I have a Tornado and see that Hornby sell a TTS Sound Decoder for this loco but that the speaker has to go in the tender. I am concerned about having the two wires dangling between loco and tender and wonder if anyone has had any problems with this.

Also, I have a Midland Compound 4-4-0 which I like very much. This has the decoder socket in the tender. Does anyone know if a TTS decoder is available for this loco.

Thanks

[Bulleidboy]

I don't believe Hornby do a TTS package for the Midland Compound. I'm sure someone will come along and tell you if there is one that Hornby produce that you can use as a suitable substitute. BB

[5Dublo2]

Have you got the Railroad Tornado, or the detailed one - reason for question is looking at the Service Sheets it looks like the the detailed one has the DCC socket and space for a speaker in the tender, where the Railroad version has the DCC socket in the loco.  It does not look like there is much space for a speaker inside the loco body of the Railroad version and the Railroad version also does not already have a 4 wire link from loco to tender. 

[geejbee]

Hello. Its the railroad version with the socket in the loco so no 4 wire link between loco and tender.

Thinking again about the midland compound, it is of course a 3 cylinder loco so probably not much chance of a sound decoder for that one yet.

Thanks

[Chrissaf]

The TTS is designed to be fitted into 'TTS Sound Ready' locos. In a TTS Sound Ready (Steam) loco. The decoder AND the speaker go in the Tender and the 4 wire plug and socket arrangement connects Tender to Loco.

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For non 'TTS Sound Ready' locos. It is not recommended to fit the decoder in the loco and the speaker in the Tender. Apart from which the speaker wires are probably too short for this to be achieved.

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Fitting a TTS decoder into a model that is not designed for it, requires some modelling skills to fit it where you can. Typically this involves replacing the factory TTS speaker with an after market one (typically a 'Sugar Cube' speaker) and finding space in the main loco for both decoder and speaker.

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[96RAF]

Have a look here for some installation ideas...

http://www.halton96th.org.uk/ttsdownload.html

Copy and paste into your browser amd download from the link.

[ColinB]

With my Tornado I initially fitted the TTS decoder in the loco using a suger cube speaker. I then realised that the loco kept stalling on bad pieces of track as there were no tender pickups, so I bought the later tender bottom that has the pickups and the socket in the tender. I then moved all of it to the tender. It does mean as well as a new tender bottom and pickups, you need to buy a 4 pin lead and socket, but the loco runs tons better. I also hate having to cram the electronics in small spaces as it increases the risk of it blowing up.

[geejbee]

ColinB that sounds an impressive upgrade.

What I don't understand is Hornby are advertising the railroad tornado with fitted TTS. As far as I can tell from the picture there is no electrical connection to the tender which suggests all the gubbins is in the loco

[5Dublo2]

Hmm that makes me wonder if they have a slightly newer Railroad version for the TTS included model (or have a TTS setup that is not available separately for the Railroad +TTS version) You might have to contact Hornby to see if the current separate TTS kit can be fitted in your Railroad Model 

[geejbee]

Yes, it looks like it could be worth a phone call.

[5Dublo2]

I just took a look at the R3663TTS (Railroad Tornado with TTS) information on the Rails of Sheffield, Kernow Model Rail and Amazon websites. While slightly difficult to see on some of the images, all three websites seem to show wires and a drawbar between the loco and tender (unlike the Hornby Page which only shows the drawbar)

[ColinB]

It is standard for Hornby to put the TTS decoder in the tender. They use the standard round speaker or rectangular in the case of Class 66, neither of which will fit in the loco. My P2 has the socket in the loco, I managed to add the sound by using an ice cube speaker below the cab, but even that loco has provision for a socket in the tender. I had add a light on the front so I couldn't move the decoder to the tender. I cannot remember whether I changed the tender bottom on this one as generally most Railroad version don't have tender pickups. The 0-4-0s being the exception, because they wouldn't work without them.

[geejbee]

Hmm, it seems the plot thickens. I will follow up 5Dublo2's post and check out a few retailers as well.

[96RAF]

Copied from another forum (credit to the poster and South West Digital)...

...the task was to put locos into like groups for the purposes of rationalising sound decoder types.

South West Digital have divided the GWR/WR steam locos into four groups. each of which it has assigned a particular decoder to.

Group 1 comprises all panier (and saddle) tanks plus the Dean Goods.

Group 2 comprises the small prairies and 2-8-0/2-8-2 tanks plus 0-6-2 tanks, 15xx Panniers and the 38xx 4-4-0 tender locos (Counties)

Group 3 comprises Counties, Halls Granges, Manors, Dukedogs, Cities, all 2-8-0 tender locos, all 2-6-0 locos, 2251 0-6-0 tender locos, and all varieties of Large Prairies.

Group 4 comprises Kings, Castles and Stars.

 

Whilst not directly what the OP is looking for it may be useful to others looking for ‘which TTS is best for this loco’, noting that TTS decoders obviously do not use the same recordings as SWD decoders.

[96RAF]

The other forum poster then went on to analyse Southern Region locos in a similar manner...

Again credit to the OP.

...SR Group 1 comprises Terriers, P class and  other small tanks to which I am adding small 0-6-0 tender locos such as the C Class

SR Group 2 there are 0-6-2s such as the E4s, 0-4-4s such as the M7, Adams 4-4-2 radials, the T9s, and the 700 0-6-0s.  I would also add the small 4-4-0s (Ds, Es, etc.)

SR Group 3 there are the various 2-6-0s such as the Us and U1s, the 4-6-0s such as the N15s, H15s and S15s. I would add the large Tanks such as the H16s, Ws, and Zs plus the original Schools

Group 4 there are the West Country, Battle of Britain and Merchant Navy classes, both as built and rebuilt. 

An additional class, class 5 is needed for the Le Maitre/ multijet fitted N15s, Lord Nelsons, Qs, Q1s and Schools...

[Howbi]

@5Dublo2..........have a look at Sam'sTrains review........clearly shows TTS decoder and speaker in the Tender which has pick-ups for reliable running............

........HB

[5Dublo2]

Thanks @howbiman

 

Sam actually mentions that he knows the non-TTS version does not have the tender located socket too. So for the original poster (geejbee) it looks like:

 

• Railroad Tornado (not TTS) has decoder socket in loco and not enough space for TTS speaker
• Railroad Tornado (TTS) has decoder socket in tender with 4 wire connector to loco and space for the speaker in the tender - however as it is possibly only sold with TTS already fitted may only useful to know if it goes faulty
• Full Detail Tornado has decoder socket in tender with space for speaker and 4 wire plug linking tender to loco

[Kaput]

All the Hornby Tornado versions are technically Railroad versions. Just a couple limited editions have more detailed liveries. Mechanically they are identical to the standard Railroad ones.

All the DCC ready Tornado's have the socket in the loco and no tender pickups.

The 2 TTS fitted from factory versions have socket in tender and tender pickups and are therefore excellent runners if a little noisy.

The current TTS fitted version can be found brand new from around £90 from some retailers and is probably worth selling whatever DCC ready version you have and buying that instead.

[geejbee]

I found a video on youtube in which the chap demonstrated how he fitted the Hornby TTS decoder into his tornado. Basically the only alteration needed was to remove the hornby round speaker and replace it with a 15mm x 11mm sugar cube speaker which fitted in the smoke box directly under the chimney allowing the sound to escape out of the double stack. The decoder itself fitted in the same area with no difficulty.

Why on earth didn't Hornby supply the sugar cube in the first place.

I have ordered the necessary components. 

Thanks to all who have contributed to the debate.

[ColinB]

Hornby only ever supply the standard speakers. I have even had issues sometimes fitting them into the tender as they don't fit always that well. From what people say on this site, changing the speaker is probably one of the best things you can do.

[Chrissaf]

Basically the only alteration needed was to remove the Hornby round speaker and replace it with a 15mm x 11mm sugar cube speaker.

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Which is exactly what I advised would be needed in my reply on Page 1 of this thread timed at 16:24.

[ColinB]

I know Chrissaf, I said the same. I think the only reason I moved mine to the tender was I had recently blown a decoder up by squeezing some other one into a loco. I also don't like taking the locos apart seeing as the valve gear seems to be the first thing that gets damaged while you are struggling to take it apart and generally is not always available as a spare part. My P2 has the TTS decoder in the loco as does my Railroad Mallard.

[TechImp]

Hi all, I may be a little late on this subject but I have the Tornado with no tender pickups and have looked everywhere for this tender base with pickups. I bought the tender base (X6340S) but alas no pickups so I would be grateful to be pointed in the right direction. The Hornby parts breakdown shows the tender pickups but gives no part number.

I believe it better to have the decoder in the loco body and the speaker in the tender. This allows all the decoder functions to be utilised, lights etc. A 6 pin plug/socket is relatively easy to fit to the tender for pickups, speaker and lights rather than the other way round.

[96RAF]

Service sheet 406 is the TTS Tornado.

The complete tender has a part number and although the product page illustration does not show wires between the loco and tender, the standard four pin socket is clearly drawn on the SS to the left off the speaker enclosure below the DCC socket. Both loco and tender have pickups although as stated the tender pickups are not numbered. Suggest comparing with other A1 loco service sheets with the tender in TTS rig.

[ColinB]

I think the way I did it TE, was to buy a A1 tender base from a non Railroad model and rob the pickups from it. The thing I found was if you buy the tender base for the non Railroad version the tender top won't fit. So what I did was buy the A1/A3 tender bottom that had pickups on it and remove them. I think if I remember on these they are attached by bent tags, so carefully unattach them. Now attach them to the original tender by making a small slot for each in your original tender. I also bought the 4 pin lead and socket and mounted the socket in the old tender. I then modified the wiring. What you need to do is what I did, search Peters spares for A1 tender bottoms, fortunately he has a reasonable amount and pick one that has pickups and is similar in shape to yours. Once you know which one you want, do a search on Lendons website, sometimes theirs are substantially cheaper and if you are only buying it for the pickups, the cheaper the better.

I hope that helps.