dcc select to laptop

[verge]

where can i get a programe for my laptop top run my dcc select ver 20

[Fishmanoz]

Given there is no provision on your Select to connect to anything other than track or as a Walkabout to an Elite or another Select, the answer is you can't. 

Hornby did announce such a connection a while ago, then abandoned it. 

[Chrissaf]

You can't ... for the reasons Fishy has given above.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[ColinB]

I thought I would do some digging into this. Reading the Hornby catalogue it appears the Select supports the XpressNet protocol, it is not Hornby proprietry, it is an industry standard. I suspected this to be the case as Hornby are not really a digital company. If you want to know more about it go to  thought I would do some digging into this. Reading the Hornby catalogue it appears the Select supports the XpressNet protocol, it is not Hornby proprietry, it is an industry standard. I suspected this to be the case as Hornby are not really a digital company. If you want to know more about it go to https://dccwiki.com/XpressNet_Protocol . Reading it, it looks like a derivative of R232, probably with different voltage levels. It also appears Lenz support this protocol, so it may well be that some of the German based software tools may well do what you want to do. I was looking into a hardware/software tool that YouChoos sell with the view of writing my own sotware front end (I was a windows programmer before I retired) which led me to a German Software company that did exactly that. I assume as it is a standard you must be able to buy a lead off the web. The only thing that could be an issue is whether Hornby have supported a standard command set but I am sure one of the tool suppliers will know. Hope that helps. . Reading it, it looks like a derivative of R232, probably with different voltage levels. It also appears Lenz support this protocol, so it may well be that some of the German based software tools may well do what you want to do. I was looking into a hardware/software tool that YouChoos sell with the view of writing my own sotware front end (I was a windows programmer before I retired) which led me to a German Software company that did exactly that. I assume as it is a standard you must be able to buy a lead off the web. The only thing that could be an issue is whether Hornby have supported a standard command set but I am sure one of the tool suppliers will know. Hope that helps.

[96RAF]

Colin you appear to have had your thumb on the copy and paste button a few times in that post. You may wish to repost it and I will hide the original for you.

 

The Select-a-Link adaptor cable does comply with basic Xpressnet standards obviously else it wouldn't work, but the problem is you have the USB side at 5 volts and the RJ side at 12 volts, so you need an isolator in there. then you have to pass the data back and forth and that is handled by a PIC-chip loaded with Hornby proprietary code, which will definitely not be released to the wide world. You also need to synch the data so a timing device is also required, etc, etc.

 

You are welcome to try to make your own adapter using your skilled background or even just buy a COTS item and hope it doesn't cook your kit. I tried to make a cross over adapter in the early days but it was a tad outwith my skill set then.

 

You can already buy a similar adapter cable from Gaugemaster at around £65-70 the last time I looked, but for that price you also get software to make it run, whereas the Hornby adapter cable required neither software nor drivers, straight plug and play for once.

 

It was a shame the bean counters binned it because it worked and worked well, allowing the Select to play nice with RM as a stand alone controller, in fact RM was upissued for my trials to allow all functions to work as the original RM code was aimed at the original early firmware Select with limited function range.

[ColinB]

This is quite standard to have 5 volts at one end and 12 volts at the other, a lot of the USB to rs232 converters have 5 volts at one end and the weird voltages that RS232 has at the other. On my projects at work we used them all the time, normally our supplier was always buying the wrong one. It is an FTDL chip if I remember rightly that does the conversion plus some ic from Maxim to do the voltage conversion, even negative ones, so it might a PIC in there or it could be an ARM processor, but who cares, it might even be an asic. I used to have to include their .DLL to get the USB to work. 

I must admit I haven't got as far as searching the web for the lead, I just did the check to see what it was and who used it, but it appears several manufacturers support this protocol. As I said Lenz along with a couple of other German manufacturers support it. The DigiKeijs DR5000 that YouChoos sell, even supports it. I hate to say it, in electronics very few people make things if they can buy them off the shelf, but now I know what I am looking for, I can do a better search. I doubt Hornby would have made it, they might have taken a standard one and modified it. The German manufacturers seem to be more up to speed on this stuff.

The finger trouble happened when I converted the web address ro plain text, I am sure I only highlighted the web address and wrongly I just assumed that is all it would do, that was after I had two fatal errors trying to post mainly because of the web address bug.

[96RAF]

Do you want me to delete the multi-post Colin.

 

Killing live links is easy. You paste it in as normal and it shows blue, you then click anywhere in the link and hit the broken chain icon and it reverts to plain text, no need to struggle highlighting the whole link as it automatically selects itself when you click on it.

 

Go ahead and source a commercial unit, I am sure you could make a good few bob flogging them if they work.

 

I am fortunate in having a working prototype, the same as I get other unique items to play with, that will never see light of day in the shops. You would be fascinated by some of the things that have been tried, proven to work and sidelined for whatever reason. New ideas are being thrown into the pot every day, some make it into production like triple channel Vent Van TTS and updating Select to be able to change CVs, but some don’t.

[ColinB]

I finally figured it out, after some web surfing. RAF96 you are right the Hornby system is 5 volts whereas the Lenx etc are 12 volts (I thought they were all 5 volts). The big thing we are missing is that it is basically RS232 with different voltage levels and a different connector. Most microprocessors only use RS232 as a communication protocol unless it is a special and more expensive. So as far as I can see, correct me if am wrong, what you actually want to talk to the Select box is a USB to RS232 lead, but one that has as its logic levels at 0 to 5 volts rather than -15 to +15 volts (I might be a bit wrong but they are somewhere about these values). You can buy these off RS to connect directly to micros. So basically you have to change the connector on the RS232 end to the Xpressnet connector. Some of the cables just come with leads so it is easier. I suspect this is what Hornby were going to do, this is what we did to the last product I worked on. As I said correct me if am wrong. If I had a Select I would try it out. The Elite probably has the FTDL chip internal to its circuit board to convert to RS232 so you don't need a special lead. The other issue with this sort of product is support, making sure it works with all versions of operating systems with different platforms as you have to load a driver, so from Hornby's point of view it is a maintenance nightmare so it may well not be the "bean counters" that made the decision to sell it.

[96RAF]

You’ve got me confused now Colin.

USB is 5 volts - end of - on my PCs and various bits of charging kit anyhow

 

Xpressnet 101 as used by Hornby. Without referring to my notes Hornby Xpressnet uses RS485 not RS232 and there is no need to chop off plugs, you can get adaptors commercially with USB one end and RJ11/12 at the other, either as a cable or a stubby gender bender. I looked at them in the early days.

 

Xpressnet in the Elite and Select uses the four inner wires of an RJ12 plug.

The outer two wires are used not for Xpressnet but purely to run the DCC signal to a booster module, but due to adverse cross talk the initially marketed universal six wire booster-walkabout cable was dropped in favour of the four wire Walkabout cable.

The six wire cable is retained for the booster ‘Xpressnet’  (actually Railcom) connection method, but it is not the best way to pass a DCC signal from power district to power district. Direct track to track wiring via the booster module is more reliable.

 

We seem to have drifted off topic, so I will leave it at that. Suffice to say the Hornby Selectalink adaptor cable works but is not available to buy. It uses a PIC chip loaded with proprietary code, not FTDL (ditto the Elite, Select and eLink), so any attempt to clone it will be a fudge. Good luck In your quest to find one.

 

[ColinB]

OK, this is my last post on this. When I refer to RS232 I mean the method of communication, data bits, stop bits CLS signal etc. Go read a PIC manual about the implementation of the serial port. So there are quite a number of protocols that use this method. Then you have what we call in the profession the physical layer, these are the voltages that the communication protocol uses and the devices to achieve this. So if you look at a diagram of RS232 data format and RS485 they use different voltages but the same data format. So normally RS485 is 12 volts, now I am confused are Hornby using 12 volts for their end or 5 volts, obviously the USB end is 5 volts as it has always been. Hornby may well use their own PIC to do the conversion, but generally most people up to quite recently use the FTDL device, well they do in the motor industry. So they must be using the PIC chip that handles USB, unless they are doing it in software, I am sure the PIC with USB came out much later than the Elite, but again I could be wrong.

Anyway for me it is not an issue, I have a Fleishman that uses an RS232 cable and comes with a manual explaining how to implement computer control. Surpisingly because PCs don't have RS232 ports anymore I have a USB to RS232 lead which I had to use to update the software. I cannot remember if Fleishmann use true RS232 or the 5 volt equivalent, I obviously did when I bought the lead. 

[verge]

So, to recap, ditch the Hornby  Selectunit and get sofware with an adapter that can talk to the dcc boards from different suppliers, So what is the best unit to use, for track lay outs ?

[Chrissaf]

This is a forum operated by Hornby. Thus Hornby have a rule that disallows active promotion of non Hornby brands. You will have to ask your 'what controller and software do you recommend?' question elsewhere on an independent forum platform which is not affiliated to a manufacturer.

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[ColinB]

Ok, we will keep this generic. Do a web search of DCC decoder suppliers and generally they supply DCC controllers. So you follow the links and I think you will find what you want. The Germans and US seem to be a bit more professional on this, providing some decent products. It appears to get the best out of Elite or Select you need the Railmaster software, as the major failing of both of these products is the abity to remember settings, which is not an issue, until you start to program accessories which becomes a pain if you have more than a couple of points. I noticed this when I was looking into programming my Heljan turntable. Unfortunately, without a suitable lead the Select cannot work with the Railmaster software. It is a shame that Hornby didn't further enhance their Elite controller, it is a good product for when it was developed but without the ability to save settings it is severly limited going forward.

[Yelrow]

colin, with Railmaster, programming  a  turntable, is a doddle, and it moves one track at a time, either way, with a mouse click. Secondly, connecting selects into system also a doddle, using correct cables, and an Elite. So, walkabouts, or simply, place them next to elite.  The Hornby system, for the price,  and tech back up, is, to my mind, the best value around, certainly, ideal for the average modeller/ starter.  Of course there are far more expensive controllers about, I have an MTH, one, connected in to drive my far more expensive locos, but they will work with 90%, of functions, with the Elite.  I have, out of interest, looked at Lenz, Roco, fleischmann, systems, but cant get past the value for money, offered with the Hornby  Products.

[96RAF]

What settings do you want the Elite and Select to remember Colin.

The Elite has a Favourites facility and you can name locos and accessories. Both units remember up to ten locos and points in volatile memory per running session.

 

Elite works with RM obviously but also Train-Controller, JMRI and Rocrail and possibly iTrain. Not much software left after that.

 

I have to agree with John about value for money and tech capability and support. I know for certain that Hornby test their kit with many other manufacturers kit (control.ers and decoders) to ensure compatilbility. Also look at the level of alien kit supported by RM. I would welcome proof that any other manufacturer does that level of cross checking, except possibly Train-Tech and DCC Concepts who do test with Hornby kit.

 

I find your arguments too generic to be taken seriously and think beginners could be put off by your ‘advice’.

[Yelrow]

That was really, my point. I did not want novices, or those on limited budgets to be discouraged. Buy the Hornby kit. Many of us run it very contentedly.

[ColinB]

I have a Fleishman Twin Centre, once you get to grips with it programming a turntable is also very easy. For a manual originally written in German it is excellant. As I said, the Hornby products are good value for money, but as I also said, to get the best out of them you need the railmaster software so we are talking £300 for the Elite plus Railmaster. I am lucky I got my Fleishmann for £30.00 as it had no leads, I took a gamble and won. I also had to buy the upgrade software and a USB to RS232 lead. Now would I have paid full price for it, I don't know, but it really is a good product. Even though I am a PC programmer, if I was going for a new DCC controller I would probably buy a system that I could control from a digital pad, the one YouChoos sell looks promising and when I enquired about writing my own interface it appears it is possible. The system that Sam uses to do his loco tests looks easy to use.

[Yelrow]

I paid Nothing like £300 for my Elite. I have 2 and they came from ebay for less than £100 each. Railmaster came with my DCC set.. You need to remember, this is a Hornby forum, and in the past, Adam, would have suggested you only discuss Hornby products. More licence has been allowed since his departure, but we should be encouraging new posters to look/ buy Hornby products..

[ColinB]

This thread was not about how good someone is in testing compatibility it was how easy is it to connect the Select to some external software, which as we have established, it sadly fails.

The Select unit is good value for money, which explains why so many people have them and Chrissaf is always writing posts as to how to fix them. This thread asked where the guy could buy some software to link to it, which he can't, so I think we have adequately covered it. I must admit I didn't know my Elite had a favorites menu, it is obviously not that obvious, the Fleishmann remembers it by default. The Fleishmann also has some annoying features, where the Elite actually does it better but the average user wouldn't notice that until they have used the unit for a while.  

As for people reading this and being put off with buying Hornby products, I doubt it, the Select is probably the cheapest still and with new software virtually does what an Elite does. This thread was covering a specific issue nothing else. As for my generic comments, perhaps they are, I just look at the issue and provide what I think is a reasonable solution. To me Hornby does some excellent products the TTS decoders are excellent value for money, as long as you realise they have limitations, but some manufacturers make better products. 

The thing that is worth remembering is if someone buys a product and later finds it doesn't meet their needs, they are going to be more upset than if they never bought the product.  

[96RAF]

Shall we say the OP has had his question answered and this topic is now closed for further discussion.

[ColinB]

@Yelrow that is ridiculous, you cannot quote that. I paid £30.00 for my Fleishmann, but I gather if I wanted to buy it new it would cost £400. If a new user wanted to buy an Elite, they retail for about £220, Railmaster is £80.00. If someone read your post, as you said to me, they would get completely the wrong idea. I bought my Elite for about £100 on EBay, it came with a copy of Railmaster and two accessory modules, but I would never tell anyone that is what they cost. Actually, I did only discus Hornby products only where I do a comparison do I suggest other products. I gather that is allowed on this site.

It is like when converting tender driven locos to DCC, would you rather I recommend the user uses a Hornby decoder which I know will die if the motor stalls, or buy a competative product that won't. 

[ColinB]

@RAF96 yes exactly.

[Yelrow]

Well now, i have 20 DCC locos, 18 of which have Hornby Chips, and, touch wood, have been perfect. The other 2, are in my MTH, locos.  None of mine have ever died or stalled.. 9 have TTS chips..  Has it been established, that hornby chips have a problem, not to my knowledge.    We will agree to disagree.

[ColinB]

I have probably in excess of 100 locos equipted with Hornby, Zimo and other decoders, quite a few with TTS sound, Zimo and Loksound. So far the only ones I have had no issues with are the Zimos and Losound. The Hornby ones are perfectly ok if you use them in a modern Hornby, deviate from that and if your motor stalls, because your valve gear got stuck then it is bye, bye decoder. I stupidly put one in an old Hornby I converted to DCC, it hit a point because the pony truck spacing was a bit out and stalled, needless to say it died Similarly with TTS decoders, be careful where you mount them, cooling is an issue, be careful when running them in a hot loft. There are a ton of posts on this site stating exactly that. So yes you have been very lucky. I had one TTS decoder in a HST that was happilly running round the track on a hot day when suddenly the loco stopped, I opened up the loco to check the decoder and it had failed with the familliar burning smell. If you are in to electronics go look at the size of the bridge rectifier SMD diodes on a Hornby decoder, then look at the ones on a Zimo, they are about half the size, which generally means it will pass less current and dissipate less heat (lack of surface area). So now I always check that there is sufficient flow of air around them. For their price TTS decoders are brilliant, I must have over twenty of them, so I must think they are ok, you just have to treat them with respect. 

One my jobs was working in the Service Bay Diagnostics for a large car manufactiuring company, designing electronic equipment to test modules on the car. To us when a module went wrong it was the really serious, until you realise that the amount that we used to deal with was less than 1% of our total prduction. Most cars go through their life having few or no issues, but to the person whose car dies it is the end of the world. So as I say, you have been lucky.

[Yelrow]

I suppose it depends how deep you go into the hobby. You, obviously . are a DCC man. Many of us . like me, buy locos ready fitted, with chips. I have never made any attempt to chip my other 120  locos, as run DC layout, as well.It would be far too costly to go down the DCC road, even if i was convinced it was the way to go. I only got into DCC, following a medical problem, and once able to return upstairs, simply  put the DCC, board, on top of DC, layout. Apart from the MTH, locos from my son, have not bought any DCC, stuff, since. I suppose my age, has kept me in the system, that i totally, know and understand fully. Luckily, the MTH, locos, are both DC, and DCC, enabled, and sounds  work on either..