Jimbo1707820979 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Totally agree with you, Colin. I have been using both a Duette and a Clipper with all kinds of locos from my collection of over a hundred, both ancient and modern, for over 2 years now. No problems whatsoever. Much better than R8250's. I really like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I used to like my Hammant & Morgan controller as well, 40+ years ago when a teenager. I now use a HM 2000 - works well but doesn't seem as robust. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 A loco manufacturer stating that their product should not be used with a particular controller is not, to use your phrase Colin, bad-mouthing that particular controller.Your ‘attack’ on Oxford Rail is unnecessary, unjustified and unwanted on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum-1211528 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 A loco manufacturer stating that their product should not be used with a particular controller is not, to use your phrase Colin, bad-mouthing that particular controller.Your ‘attack’ on Oxford Rail is unnecessary, unjustified and unwanted on this forum.I'm not attacking Oxford Rail its just Steve that Hornby, Dapol, Bachmann, and other manufactures don't put warnings in their locos boxes telling people not to use a Clipper or Duette controller as I love my Hannant and Morgan controllers as I did have a Adams Radial from Oxford Rail that works fine with Hannant and Morgan controllers so I trust what Hornby say when they tell me these controllers work fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellocoloco Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 @colin_flowerday My Duette is the only DC controller I have ever used and like you, have a great fondness for its reliability and build quality. I have used it without issue on my assortment of Hornby, Mainline, Airfix, Lima, Roco, Mehano, Mabar, Athearn, Liliput, Bachmann, Fleischmann, Atlas, Walthers and one NKP brass Hudson! Oxford Rail advise against the running under halfwave on the Duette or similar. But its up to us what we do............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum-1211528 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 @colin_flowerday My Duette is the only DC controller I have ever used and like you, have a great fondness for its reliability and build quality. I have used it without issue on my assortment of Hornby, Mainline, Airfix, Lima, Roco, Mehano, Mabar, Athearn, Liliput, Bachmann, Fleischmann, Atlas, Walthers and one NKP brass Hudson! Oxford Rail advise against the running under halfwave on the Duette or similar. But its up to us what we do.............Oxford Rail can advise you not to run the loco on Half wave on a Clipper or Duette I use mine on full wave and everything works fine its just I take no notice and continue to use my Hannant and Morgan Duette! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum-1211528 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I used to like my Hammant & Morgan controller as well, 40+ years ago when a teenager. I now use a HM 2000 - works well but doesn't seem as robust. Al.Get Yourself a Power master mate this is the greatest H&M controller ever you will love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 That Hammant & Morgan Powermaster does seem an interesting beast indeed.What is it that makes it incompatible with some locomotives, and specifically as mentioned, the Oxford Rail ones? Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 Possibly coreless motors or feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Colin if you are so keen on Hammant and Morgan controllers why do you insist on calling the Hannant and Morgan? I guess Oxford tested the N7 with a selection of controllers and found for some reason it didn’t like the H & M. One of those things that happens sometimes and good for Oxford to point out the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 Regarding the ‘why dont they tell of all the makes and models the controller is not suitable for’ remark. That would be an impossible task. The best you could hope for is a general statement saying ‘do not use this controller with xyz motors’ or maybe ‘ this is a feedback controller not suited to xyz motors’ Or whatever the inherant characteristic is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Probably right about the coreless / brushless motors - becoming more popular now I think.If they're similar to their applications in R/C, they'll offer a substantial increase in power / performance (=speed) but may LOSE torque low down. Doubtless there are ways of adjusting the power characteristics to suit the applications. It should mean that motors are less of a disposable necessity and more just a case of a few drops of oil and you're fine ... for many years equivalent lifetime. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 Drifting off topic a bit, but I wonder if a step change in power train design is called for to drive locos. Say keeping the electrical bits anchored to the frame and the mechanical rotating parts feeding into the transmission chain. That way you keep the complex bits maybe solid state and the other bits can be made more reliable and wear out proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum-1211528 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 That Hammant & Morgan Powermaster does seem an interesting beast indeed.What is it that makes it incompatible with some locomotives, and specifically as mentioned, the Oxford Rail ones? Al.Al the Hannant and Morgan Power master isn't the controllers that Oxford Rail are on about as those were the Clipper and Duette as the Powermaster was top of H&Ms range at the time could run seven trains on one track at a time and was very complicated as remember then no DCC or ZERO ONE so then that was the only way to do that! Even today Gauge master does nothing like the Power master!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I give up. Maybe he’s talking about a completely different make of controller. Perhaps it is a copy of the Hammant and Morgan made in North Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 In defence of Colin : the N and the M are adjacent on the keyboard -- on mine, anyway 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfox4475 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I wish I still had my old duette. It was a great controller. I had it for over 30 years before it went wrong. I replaced it with my current Gaugemaster about 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Ok, I am confused, why would a power supply kill a loco motor, unless it was giving out a voltage higher than that required by the motor. Half wave rectification, just means that the whole signal is not being used, and generally the motor should filter it, so it should be a lower voltage, unless I am missing something. In electronic power supplies, we use full wave rectification as you don't need such a large smoothing capacitor. From my experience of model railways, other than the advent of better motors and DCC, the basic electrical stuff from the major suppliers doesn't seem to have moved on a lot. Peco still sell a slider switch that fits under a point motor, that puts extra load on the motor, and when they do redesign it to a supposedly better one, it is too large and falls apart if you look at it. The joke of it is, the basic Peco point motor is brilliant, it is simple when fitted under the point, and because it is direct, works well, the thing that they got wrong, is not selling a piece of card to fit below the point so you don't see the gap or better making an adapter where the motor fits below the point, which the point fits on top of. There miniture microswitches on EBay that are much better and more reliable. The biggest issue with old controllers seems to be their overload protection, if the tracks short out, there is no visible indication. At least with the ready old Hornby ones a button used to pop out. I would imagime the cost of a large transformer is the reason they are not made any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I’ll cut you out some bits of card to go under the points if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Already done that, it is just a pain lining up the holes and cutting the slot for the pin. Life is too short to make everything, plus given todays technology, if someone sensible made them (rather than the certain firm I was complaining about) they would be only about 50p each. I can get a relay board off Ebay cheaper than I can buy the bits. I mean if you want to waste your time scrabbling under your baseboard lining up point motors then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 All part of railway modelling. I enjoy doing it myself. Might just as well get somebody to build the layout for you if you don’t like having a go. Not aimed at you just a general statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 if someone sensible made themLike this? https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/cobalt-tiebar-labels-12-pack/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 You could, but it would cost you a fortune. I hate to say it, but there is no comparison with buying a couple of preformed plastic pieces with building a complete layout. I have over 60 points, and yes I have made card inserts for each one, if there was a preformed piece it would be a lot easier. I suppose you make your own points from fuse wire. Sorry, I was trying to make the creation of a layout a bit easier, there is enough to do just doing the scenery and all the wiring, I am just fed up with stupid answers. I know I can make them out of card, I said that in the original post. Actually, I was talking to someone today that didn't think it was such a stupid idea, using 3d printing he could possibly make them for 40 p each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 if someone sensible made themLike this? https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/cobalt-tiebar-labels-12-pack/ Unfortunately, these don't have the holes preformed, that is the difficult part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plot62 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I have recently inherited two Hammant & Morgan HM3000 controllers. I was intending to install them onto my main DC layout but having decided to take the plunge and upgrade to DCC, but I do intend to use them on a planned heritage layout that will be DC as I do not intend to convert all of my older stock to DCC.I would like to know whether there is still a market for them for H&M controllers, and in particular this model. I note there are a lot of other H&M controllers and equipment on ebay etc, but no HM3000's hence I cannot find an operating manual such that I can test them fully, although they both appear to be working.I do have a copy of the Hammant & Morgan Catalogue 11th Edition which describes the functions inherant on the HM3000.I would be interested if anyone has a copy of an operating manual for the HM3000 or could point me at someone who has. Regards,Neil - Alnwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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