Peter-885020 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Hello. I am planning an analogue layout and recently received my copy of the Hornby Track Plans, Edition 14. I'm struggling with the wiring as on Page 10 of the book (Power in the right place...) it says the plans show the correct positions for the power tracks or clips for the layout. I can't see any record of such information on the plans. Is anyone able to point me in the right direction please. I do hope I'm not simply overlooking the relevant info. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I don't have the 14th Edition plan book to refer to, but I believe [subject to confirmation by others] that the reference to power connection information is more likely a printing error.The reason being for this printing error deduction is that where power is connected to any layout is a variable. It depends upon how you are going to use a layout plan. Power connection locations will be different subject to how many controllers you are going to use and whether control will be Analogue or Digital.In DC Analogue control, the layout is split up into one or more controller domains, with each domain controlled by a separate controller. Then the same layout plan could be controlled by DCC, which has its own power requirements.Thus the outcome of these variables, is that the person who designed the plan has no idea how the layout plan is going to be actually physically used by the 'user'. Therefore there is no power connection plan that is a "one size fits all". It is generally accepted that these layout plan books leave the detail of the power distribution and controller connections to the builder to devise.If you posted an image of the plan that you are interested in building, stating whether Analogue DC or Digital DCC control, and if Analogue, how many controllers. Then your plan can be assessed and recomendation / suggestions made for powering / controlling it. Note that posted images are held back for approval and will not appear straight away.As a principle rule, Hornby points act as electrical switches and route track power into the route that they are switched to. This means that power distribution from the controller(s) should always arrive at the "toe" [common] end of the point. Failure to adopt this rule, can result with dead power sections of track being created.As this is your first post on this forum and my reply is a long one, please use the "Reply Text Box" at the bottom of the page and ignore the within post blue button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Hello. Many thanks for the comprehensive reply. I shall attempt to add an image of the layout ASAP and see if there is any support that people may be able to offer. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Could you please say which layout you are preparing to build - I have the Track Plans Edition 14 in front of me.Chris: The Op. did say analogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Hello. It's layout 9/14 at the bottom of page 56. Thanks for your interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 I have attempted to add a photo which should be found 'somewhere' below.Mod note, I did say that images would not appear straight away and would need approval. Your image has been approved and appears further above, the duplicate images from your multiple image posting attempts have been removed. I also requested that the within post blue button be ignored and that the reply text box at the bottom of the page is used as the preferred reply method. Edits have been necessary to remove the blue button corruptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I suggest that layout is best controlled with a minimum of three [optionally four] controllers when being built as an Analogue layout.That is a very ambitious layout for a novice and will require some custom wiring. I am assuming you are a novice, as a more experienced layout builder would know how to wire it.As this layout is multi-level, you may have issues with modern light weight locos climbing the gradients.Subject to what suggestions others may post, I will post an image with some suggestions time permitting later tomorrow afternoon, if nobody else offers any in the meantime.See also the note I have added to your post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Hi Peter - I will let Chris explain further with the wiring now that you have shown the track plan. This layout is on three levels and to my mind will require some serious wiring. Hornby points (I assume you are using Hornby track?) are self isolating - power goes in the direction the point is set - so track in a siding is dead until you change the point. Looking at this layout I would assume you would require a number of power connections. I run a DCC layout, with electrofrog points and with a bus cable, so all of the track is "live" permanently.Someone will be along soon to explain what is required. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Many thanks for all your interest. I'm impressed by this forum. I am a novice but have successfully run two loop layouts with sidings etc and am looking at a challenge! I will be running older locomotives so hopefully they will cope with inclines-i shall explore this to make sure they cope with the inclines. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on the location of power inputs Chris. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Picking up on Chrissaf's comment about possible problems with trains coping with the gradients, the one feeding the upper level appears to be particularly severe. The climb has to be accomplished in little more than the length of 3 x R607 2nd radius curves: a rise of 65mm at the very least in around 1050mm track length, although there does appear to be the space to substitute 3rd radius curves to ease the drag a little. A 14xx tank with an autocoach, perhaps, or a DMU with traction tyres, as there is no run-round facility at the top level station.The gradient to the middle level is easier along the approximately 1350mm of 3 x R8262 4th radius curves and there is the ability to lengthen the inclined section back towards the base level station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Thanks GS. I will look at trying to reduce the gradients by increasing their lengths-i have some spare room. Hopefully, Chris will be able to suggest some help with electrics. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Peter,Here [as promised] is a suggestion for powering your 9/14 layout plan.I have split the layout into three power domains. Highlighted red, blue and green. Optionally the green could be split into two. So that sidings to the right [Controller 3] are separated from the sidings to the left [Optional Controller 4].It has been stated in previous replies that controller power should ideally be fed into the 'toe' [common] end of a point. If you follow the red and green highlight lines with your finger from the controller connection locations you will see that your finger will always alight on the 'toe' [common] end of a point. With a total of only three controllers [optional Controller 4 not implemented] then only one siding at a time can be powered from Controller 3. Remember it has previously been stated that Hornby points act as electrical switches and only route power into the route that they are set to.The blue domain has its own power issue to resolve. Two points are located directly back to back [toe to toe]. So to achieve the recommended power requirement to apply power to point 'toes', the connection for Controller 2 is better placed where the two point 'toe' ends join together. This can't be done with a standard Hornby R602 Track Power Clip. So I suggest soldering the controller wires directly to the Hornby track joiners. If you can not solder, or don't own a Soldering iron, then you could potentially use PECO PL-80 pre-wired track joiners [see image above]. Removing the Hornby joiners and replacing them with the PL-80 versions is doable but may need some brute force to remove the Hornby ones. Note that PECO produce pre-wired joiners for other track Codes as well. Only the PL-80 is suitable for Hornby Code 100 track.Where the red, blue and green power domains join i.e red to blue and blue to green [near the Controller 2 connection location]. Then optionally 'Insulated Rail Joiners' [Hornby R920] can be used to electrically separate the controller outputs. But this is optional and not strictly needed for this particular 9/14 track plan.Note, that this plan has a lot of points in it. The transference of power is totally reliant on the quality of the electrical conductivity through a point. The electrical contact area is on the side of the moving rail and the side of the corresponding fixed rail. These contact areas must be spotlessly clean and held in firm contact by the point spring. Any points where the moving rail is floppy is likely to create power issues. So if you find parts of your layout suddenly have dead zones, then it is the points in the route between the dead zone and the controller that need to be investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-885020 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Hello Chris. I'm really impressed with the speed and quality of your support and that of others. It's greatly appreciated and I shall look carefully into all your advice and that from others! Thanks. Plenty for me to digest!Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Well done Chris - a good and thorough explanation. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Thank you PeterThank you BBAlthough the plan looked complicated at first glance, it turned out to be a fairly easy plan to derive a suggested power plan for. Mainly because in the main, all the points were facing in the same direction from the controller connection locations, and there were no reverse loops to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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