Intercity125 not running on track

[Jude-1243757]

Hi everybody I’ve brought a Hornby intercity train on from eBay it doesn’t seem to run on track I’ve taken apart the motor and have cleaned it and oiled it but it still doesn’t run on track when I do the 9 volt battery test the wheels seem to run alwright but as soon as it is on track it won’t move any suggestions or ideas of how to fix problem many thanks

[Brew Man]

Well if it passes the 9V battery test then clearly there's nothing wrong with the loco. That leaves either the power supply to the track or the track itself. If you have a multimeter check the voltage across the rails with the power supply connected. Multimeters can be purchased for under £10. Also, incidentally you could check power to the rails with the 9V battery, (with the main power supply disconnected of course). If the loco still doesn't move with either of those tests then it must be the track itself. Make sure it is spotlessly clean by using a track rubber and IPA.

[Going Spare]

It could indicate that the Ringfield motor can put out just enough power to turn the wheels when they are not under load but does not have the ability to provide enough power to move the loco when it is on the track.

Alternatively, does it fail to move when on the track because a short-circuit has tripped-out the controller?

I would contact the seller as, either way, it is a non-runner.

[Jude-1243757]

hi thanks for the replys what do you mean by short circuit has tripped out the controller im new to this hobby so im not shure what that means could you let me know

[Jude-1243757]

Hi I’ve tried putting 9 volt batterie on track with power supply disconnected and the train runs but only if I give it a bit of a push but then will stop

[96RAF]

Which exact 125 loco is it - if we can ascertain the R-number then we can find the right service sheet and give advice on such things as making sure the power pickups are set correctly to the wheel backs, checking gear trains, etc.

Old style motors can lose their magnetism and although they turn in hand they may not have the grunt to drag their own weight around the track.

A picture with the body removed would also help.

[Going Spare]

A short-circuit is when something conductive (metallic) bridges a gap in an electrical circuit resulting in a high current and heat in the circuit which could damage the controller if it did not have the ability to turn itself off until whatever is causing the short-circuit is removed.

As 96RAF has requested, identifying which HST power car and controller you have would help targetted advice. If you do not know the R-number, what is its livery and running number? On the bottom of the chassis, it should say whether it was made in Great Britain or China.

Assuming it is powered by a motor bogie rather than a motor mounted centrally on the chassis driving both bogies, there could be a problem within the motor - a weak magnet, perhaps - or it could be something as simple as a wheelset in the non-powered bogie being the wrong way round so that there is a low resistance electrical path from one rail to the other through the bogie rather than as intended through the motor. The plastic gears on the backs of the wheels on the non-powered bogie should both be on the same side and that side should be the opposite side to the geared wheels on the motor bogie. If you intend investigating further, have you checked the condition of the motor brushes and their springs?

[Jude-1243757]

hi ive taken some pics hope this helps

[threelink]

Before trying anything else, follow Brew Man's advice to clean the track. Make sure the wheels are clean too. Everything needs to be clean and shiny to achieve good running but avoid abrasives. If track and wheels are clean, all wheels rotate freely, the motor brushes and commutator are clean, the brush springs are in good order, the motor and drive train are properly lubricated and there is no other fault such as the short circuit mentioned by Going Spare, then I'm afraid you have bought a turkey.

[ColinB]

One thing I found with ringfield motors when I was repairing them is it is critical where the rolled up magnet sits in its housing. Then there are all the other things like pickups making sure they are in contact with the wheels. If it is an early 1980s one it uses the axles of the wheels as pickups, so sometimes oil solidified oil can cause issues.

[Rana Temporia]

Make sure both axles on the trailing bogie are the right way round otherwise you will get a short across the track. These locos pick up from one side on the motor and the other on the trailing bogie. If you check the service sheet it will make it clear.

I have bought a great many ‘non runners’ over the years only to find someone has put an axle back in the wrong way round. A very cheap way to get perfectly good locos!

[Going Spare]

I think you have a wire missing between the two bogies, or at least incorrectly connected. There should be two wires linking to each bogie.

As you look at the chassis with the motor bogie to your left with the brush arms facing you, the wire from the righthand arm goes to one of the connections on the non-powered bogie block. The wire from the lefthand brush arm has a diode in it and links to the bulb contact further away from you.

The second wire from the non-powered bogie block connects with the nearer bulb contact.

If you want to check out the arrangement of the chassis, search for Service Sheet 109 on Lendons website via the 'Useful Links' post pinned at the top of this forum section.

The wheels look to be ok.

[Tony57]

Hi Jude

Just looked at your phots

Have you any rubber tyers on the motor unit wheel ?,

the two wheels with a slot in them should have a rubber tyer on each wheel.

[Jude-1243757]

Hi Tony it did have rubber wheels on it but had the same problem so I took them of to see if it made any difference but it didn’t I’ve just had a look at spring that goes on the Brushes and one of the springs looks worn out so I’ve order some new spings and brushes and rubber tires on eBay so I will give them ago when I get them and see if that makes any difference

[Brew Man]

Yes, always a good idea to have brushes, springs and tyres in good condition. Will also help to make sure the commutator is clean. I followed a tip from a member on here, (Threelink I think) and used Brasso, and cleaning the channels with a cocktail stick. Brings it up like new.

[Going Spare]

So the chassis wiring is ok, then?

[Jude-1243757]

Hi going spare I’m not really shure about the chasis wiring I notice if I give the train a bit of a push it moves but won’t start to move by itself until I push train so I don’t know if that’s a wiring issue

[Jude-1243757]

hi every one I just have tried a nother old train I brought on eBay the intercity swallow model and that to doesn’t run either but some of my newer trains do run fine so not sure what is going on

[P-Henny]

Jude,

Your latest reply gives a valuable clue to the core of your issue. Your photos on the previous page shows a Hornby R7229 train set controller. This controller is gutless and lacks enough power for reliable and robust operation of older locos that have higher current demand than more modern locos.

You say the newer locos run fine, but it is only the older locos that have your posted issue. This matches exactly with my statement about the R7229 controller. I suggest you need to invest in a better quality higher power rated controller. The only current Hornby controller that meets that high power requirement is the HM2000. Obsolete high power Hornby controllers are available in the secondhand market, or you could look at other brands such as Guagemaster.

Older locos have historically had motors that require more current than modern 'CAN' motors, but older locos can also suffer from reduction of magnetism in the motor magnets over time. Weak magnets increase the current drawn by a motor to a value that is even higher than when the motors and magnets were new.

[Rog RJ]

I agree with P-Henny, older locos use more power and modern train set controllers aren't up to the job. I have read that the Intercity 125 is particularly power hungry but have no experience of this myself.

[Jude-1243757]

Hi p Jenny and rog thanks for your reply’s I didn’t know that about the new Hornby controler that I have not having enough power for older models of trains that’s amazing to here that I thought all controllers would work for all trains new and old I will definitely invest in a more powerful controler I recon that sounds like the problem many thanks

[threelink]

@JU

Hi Jude. Brewman mentioned my earlier post about using Brasso to clean commutators. It works really well but do wash off all trace of residual Brasso with lighter fuel. If there is the tiniest trace left of the Brasso it will cause accelerated wear. Cleaning the commutator slots with a cocktail stick or similar is equally important.

I hope that a decent controller will deliver the goods. I have a lot of older Triang, Hornby and Lima locos and the newer train set controllers definitely do not have enough oomph to run them. I bought a few old Triang transformer/controllers which are fine for the job if thoroughly checked by a competent electrician before use - 50 year old electrics can deteriorate and one I bought had been meddled with, making it potentially lethal.

Let us know if the replacement controller does the job.

[Jude-1243757]

Hi thanks for the advice really appreciate it I’ve just ordered a Hornby hm 2000 controller so I’m hoping that it will produce enough power will let everyone know as soon as I try it and if it fixes the problem

[Jude-1243757]

Hi everyone just a quick update I’ve got the Hornby hm 2000 controller setup the right way tried my intercity 125 again it still won’t move unless I give it a push and even then it won’t hardly move this time those I can smell a sawt of burning smell coming from it when I power it I’ve ordered some spare parts for it so will see if that makes any difference

[threelink]

There is definitely something badly amiss with your 125. If mechanically everything is free running it should fly and it certainly should not smell of burning. Sounds to me like a short in the windings, or some other electrical nasty.