Crankpin Conundrum

[Andy84]

Greetings everyone, I hope that you can help me.

Last year while packing and dismantling our layout, in view to moving house, all the locomotives were given a clean, service and final run before going back into their boxes.

During this, not sure how this happened, a screw in the centre drive wheel of one of our Merchant Navy class sheared off and the valve gear was destroyed (I have a replacement ready to go). The only thing stopping me from returning this model to full working order is the broken screw piece in the crankpin.

So my question, apologies for the rambling, is can/where can I get a replacment crankpin from?

I have seperated it from the drive wheel and if I try to remove the screw remains I will just damage the thread in the crankpin. I found a few websites that sell replacements but they don't look like they're a match, not to mention they only label them as "long" or "short" but give no measurements (my damaged one is about 6mm long).

The loco in question is R.2294 Merchant Navy Class 'Ellerman Lines'

The part number for what I thought was the right replacement is S2109 though, again, i'm not sure this is the right part.

So any advice/tips would be most welcome,

Andy

[atom3624]

Pins can actually be found on Ebay. How to crimp them is the skilled part!

Al.

[Going Spare]

S2109 crankpin is designed for UK-made locos and is unlikely to be suitable for your China-made model because it will have a different thread. Try telephoning Peters Spares (01642 909794): they may be able to supply the correct replacement crankpin (and screw if needed) or a replacement wheelset.

[96RAF]

Long and short, some wheels have only one rod, whilst others have two or more rods and possibly speedo or lubricator cranks. These longer pins have spacers twixt the various rod and cranks. The main difference apart from length is the flats at the very end to locate the speedo or lubricator cranks.

[Andy84]

Thanks for the advice.

I called Peters Spares with no luck, they kept telling me the crank pins came with the con rod/valve gear pack which made no sense as I have never seen them in packs before or even the 2 sets I have, the screws yes, but not the crankpins themselves.

I explained that the screw was broken off inside and asked if the S2109 part would work, long shot I know, and they told me no and my best bet was to buy a parts engine of the same vintage which i'm not going to do just for one tiny bit. I have seen them on the wheel sets (part number X8844/X8845) but finding one of those is like trying to find an honest MP

So I guess it's back to trying to drill out the remains of the screw and hope I don't damage the thread inside the pin

Anyone have any suggestions on some tiny drill bits?

[Brew Man]

Expo Drills and Tools do sets of small drill bits going down to about 0.5mm or even smaller. I'm sure there are other suppliers too.

[The son of Triangman]

Most valve gear has come in packs with associated screws since the China move. Your best bet is ebay or a clunker on the toy fairs in the spares boxes.

[P-Henny]

Anyone have any suggestions on some tiny drill bits?

Go to ebay and use the search term "micro drills".

[96RAF]

The pins have always been present in any wheel sets I have obtained as they are kind of integral to the wheel. My problem has always been stripping out the recess in the wheel when trying to shift an obstinate crank screw, so now I put a drop of superglue on the recess to help stop the pins turning later on.

[ColinB]

Dearie me there is so much false information on this thread. The crank pins push into the wheels as I have found when many have decided to move out of the wheel. What you need to do is look at the spare wheel sets provided by the spares suppliers and pick the cheapest set for any Pacific loco. Avoid the Tornedo and any locos that are derived from it as it uses smaller corn rod screws. When the wheels arrive push out the crank pin and reinstall it in your broken one, use a dab of super glue to hold it in. The screws normally break because the pin in the wheel has pushed out slightly so when you try to tighten the valve gear to to slot, there is no slot to engage as the pin is not far enough out. That is the way I do it. Why Hornby don't do them as spares, or even Peter I will never understand.

[atom3624]

Hence why I said look at Ebay.

I've loads of odd wheel sets - mainly for this reason, and/or cheaper than replacing some gears ... another story!

Don't forget, some newer models are much closer set, like the speedo on the Lord Nelson - no spacer there and runs perfectly!

Al.

[morairamike]

When sheared crank pins I bought new wheel sets for the loco which came with the pins.

[Andy84]

Dearie me there is so much false information on this thread. The crank pins push into the wheels as I have found when many have decided to move out of the wheel. What you need to do is look at the spare wheel sets provided by the spares suppliers and pick the cheapest set for any Pacific loco. Avoid the Tornedo and any locos that are derived from it as it uses smaller corn rod screws. When the wheels arrive push out the crank pin and reinstall it in your broken one, use a dab of super glue to hold it in. The screws normally break because the pin in the wheel has pushed out slightly so when you try to tighten the valve gear to to slot, there is no slot to engage as the pin is not far enough out. That is the way I do it. Why Hornby don't do them as spares, or even Peter (I have another name for him but I will get thrown off if I use it) I will never understand.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your response, very helpful indeed, and yes I know what you mean about other names, I had a few choice ones myself when I got off the phone to them.

 

 

I found some second hand drive wheels for a Class A1/A3 & A4 that might be suitable, some of the engines listed for it are from 2003 so only a year out from the manufacture date of my loco in need, they even have an 'X' spare number which I was told by "Peter" indicate a China made model part

 

 

Would these be suitable do you think?

 

 

[Going Spare]

I am sorry my recommendation of Peters Spares was not productive for you - I can only say this does not reflect my experience. Unfortunately, their erroneous advice extends to the explanation of an X pack as this prefix has been used since the earliest days of Tri-ang production in the UK. The X prefix often indicates that the pack contains more than one component - two bogie frames, ten screws, a complete chassis, a valvegear set, a made- up wiring assembly or even something like a cylinder block which appears to be just one component but has been assembled in the factory with a main moulding plus two front or rear cylinder covers. A one-piece moulding such as a body that has been decorated also usually carries an X number.

The crank pins in the 2003 A1-A4 wheels should be suitable provided that their threads are sound and at least one of them is also a centre wheel with a long crankpin to take the rods and spacer on your Merchant Navy, and also has flats on the outer end to take the eccentric.

[Peters Spares Model Railwa]

Hi there,

I have been informed of some wrong advice from my store so have popped online to clear it up.

Firstly advice:

Any modern wheel set can be used as others have mentioned 'with a long crank' will be fine as you need to only salvage the crankpin and push into your old wheel set. Like X8419 from an A3. Screws are only available in rod packs and again any can be used from similar aged models like X9087 from a black 5.

Secondly the phone call:

So onto my colleagues advise. He has told me he was never asked for the crankpin and gave advise on the screw that had snapped. This being in the valve gear pack which it is. Without listening to the phone recordings of which I don't know what day or time it was I can't answer further.

Thirdly:

Re the moment from ColinB 'Why Hornby don't do them as spares, or even Peter I will never understand.'

Hornby no longer sell one off small items and haven't since about 2000 They are now all in groups like a wheel set or a rod set with screws. Possibly it's just not cost effective to pay someone to bag one or ten screws anymore. (This is my own opinion and a guess not fact.)

I can only do so much with the support of Hornby spares department when they supply them.

Thanks Peter (Peters Spares Model Railways Ltd)

[Peters Spares Model Railwa]

Dearie me there is so much false information on this thread. The crank pins push into the wheels as I have found when many have decided to move out of the wheel. What you need to do is look at the spare wheel sets provided by the spares suppliers and pick the cheapest set for any Pacific loco. Avoid the Tornedo and any locos that are derived from it as it uses smaller corn rod screws. When the wheels arrive push out the crank pin and reinstall it in your broken one, use a dab of super glue to hold it in. The screws normally break because the pin in the wheel has pushed out slightly so when you try to tighten the valve gear to to slot, there is no slot to engage as the pin is not far enough out. That is the way I do it. Why Hornby don't do them as spares, or even Peter (I have another name for him but I will get thrown off if I use it) I will never understand.

Thanks for your response, very helpful indeed, and yes I know what you mean about other names, I had a few choice ones myself when I got off the phone to them.

I found some second hand drive wheels for a Class A1/A3 & A4 that might be suitable, some of the engines listed for it are from 2003 so only a year out from the manufacture date of my loco in need, they even have an 'X' spare number which I was told by "Peter" indicate a China made model part

Would these be suitable do you think?

I have just added a reply re the advise and given two part numbers. My new staff member wasn't aware yet but is now of the similar crank pin and screw. Everyone has to learn on the job. Unfortunately I can no longer be on the phones all day as I have to run the company in other ways. Thanks Peter

 

 

[Andy84]

No it was a good shout, I have used them before for spares over the years and contacted them about info on spares, albeit only via e-mail. If I ever contact them again it will be via e-mail rather than spending 20 minutes on hold listening to terrible hold music.

The wheels I have found are only £5 and the crank pin does look like a match so willing to take a punt on it for that price. The wheels will then be used for the future layout as part of a 'Engine Workshop' diorama.

So nothing will go to waste...hopefully

[RB51]

Please can all members remember that personal comment - albeit shrouded in carefully crafted terms and parenthesis - is not permitted. I have edited out all the occurrences I could find. R-

[96RAF]

Thanks to Peter of Peter’s Spares for his very helpful responses which help clarify this crankpin matter.

@Peter - you may wish to amend your nickname in My Community Profile to differentiate you from any other Peter on the forum - say to Peters Spares.

[Peters Spares Model Railwa]

Thanks to Peter of Peter’s Spares for his very helpful responses which help clarify this crankpin matter.

@Peter - you may wish to amend your nickname in My Community Profile to differentiate you from any other Peter on the forum - say to Peters Spares.

 

 

Done I think. Wasn't sure how to show Peters Spares

[RB51]

Welcome Peter, you will be a great addition to the forum. R-