Accurascale class 50

[The Doc]

Accurascale have just announced that they are making a class 50. I'm quite surprised by this, since the Hornby model was considered excellent when it appeared, albeit several years ago now. The Lima class 50 was, in my opinion, also pretty good in its day.

It strikes me that manufacturers are going to extreme lengths to try to produce what they consider a perfect example of a model (e.g. the Accurascale Deltic or Hattons class 66), only for it to be let down by impractical fine details such as chains linking bogies to bodies, or rotating axle boxes. Another example could be the Dapol (Black Label?) A4 in 00 gauge which, by the sound of it, was far from perfect despite it colossal price tag at the time.

I can understand those that want improvements over the old Lima models (though they will do me just fine - I've just bought a couple of secondhand Westerns for £35 each and both run well) but it seems to me the first improvements on these models were just fine. I own a secondhand Bachmann Deltic and, like my Lima and Hornby Deltics, it never derails, whereas the Accurascale model with "kinematic" couplings appears to have lots of problems.

Have we reached a point where newer ultra detailed models are actually worse than what they replaced?

[HornbyinNC]

I have five of class 50's, all by Hornby. The oldest, which was brought new, is R2428 "Illustrious" and dates to 2005. It was the first of the "modern" Hornby diesels I purchased and in the day, the performance and specification was nothing short of spectacular. The weight, detail and finish; in addition to the operating exhaust fan, vent louvers, opening doors all in ready to run was a modelers dream come true.

Will I be buying replacements from Accurascale? Not likely, but then I never had the older Lima version either. For those that have needs of a modern version, as the Hornby version is now dated, I say go for it and trust they are worthy successors to an already excellent model.

[wairoalbany]

I am currently looking at old Lima Class 50s for sale on flea bay. The prices are not bad. I will probably also buy one from Accurascale.

Most of my UK models are Hornby.

I do wonder about the super detailed models though.

I have 2 Class 60s. The cheaper Lima version gets far more use than the detailed Hornby example as I am afraid that I may damage the Hornby model.

I have 4 Class 66. 1 is Lima, 2 Hattons and 1 Trix. The one that gets the most use by far is the Lima model as it is the most robust.

I have the Hornby APT and have only run the power car twice as I am too afraid of damaging the train.

I have the Accurascale Deltic which has never been removed from its box, again don’t want to damage it. Here again I am looking for a cheap Lima Deltic to run.

I am planning on getting the old Hornby Class 58 as I don’t want to damage my more expensive EFE version.

[Will Hay]

When I started the hobby three years ago and didn't quite anticipate the obsession it would become, I concentrated on the budget end of the market.

I've since gone full circle and changed practically all to the super detail versions, or the likes of dapol, heljan and bachmann.

For me, there is just nothing like the beauty of the detail contained in these variants, no matter how fast I throw them around my tracks.

[atom3624]

A few years ago, good / as new Hornby 50's were going for £80-110.

Recently, they have routinely gone up to £120+ despite being the very same models.

Hopefully, this new introduction will encourage a strong following, permitting fans of the Hornby model to purchase it for a more-reasonable price.

Al.

[ColinB]

If Hornby released a new class 50 (same model just different colour/name) I suspect it would be well over £200, so if you want one this represents good value for money. The Hornby one is good, I have 3 that I bought for under £100 each although a couple are missing buffers. I must admit I am more interested in how they run rather than the last rivet position. I prefer the Hornby to the Lima mainly because of the better chassis and no traction tyres. I wonder why Accurascale are doing one? From what I have seen recently with the class 66 and 6 wheel coaches, does that mean Hornby will rush around to release their one again.

[Going Spare]

No need to rush through anything, R30153 and R30154 are due next Spring @ £223.99.

[ColinB]

Well at least I was right about the price. I suppose though it does mean they will make spring 2023 rather than a lot later as is the case with many of my preordered models of 2021.

[Richard RK3]

Well indeed this new version of the Class 50 from them does look quite impressive, I'll give em that! thumbsup

However, since I've decided to make the switch from OO to TT, it will be the latter I will be getting from here! Plus it will be cheaper too, and that's before applying the membership discount! ;)

[wairoalbany]

It seems as though TT maybe a good move for Hornby afterall. Seems as though more people are taking an interest in it than I thought initially.

I also noticed that there are 2 OO Class 50s available for preorder in the Hornby store while there are 3 available for preorder for TT.

I wonder if that is a sign that Hornby sees TT as their main bread and butter over the long term.

[ColinB]

TT if it becomes popular could be the future for Hornby. As most of its sales base is the older generation, most of them already have a large array of oo models. If you read the thread on 9Fs many people are saying "why buy a new one when I already have one" so the market for new locos is not huge. That is why Hornby develops new locos like the Hush Hush. Trouble is they are not appealing to the younger generation and the price of the locos themselves puts off new starters. So TT might be popular for a while until Hornby hikes the price as it tries to cover increased costs. From what I heard they are already messed up the first batch by making a "schoolboy" error.

[wairoalbany]

i will read that 9f thread. Not good if Hornby have messed up the first TT run.

[atom3624]

Interesting comments from Doc, just above.

I cannot run my Deltic continuously without having to rerail her, despite having removed the chains as well - fantastic runner and looks superb, but I still need to spend time trying to get her running consistently - one major reason for buying a working model locomotive.

I'm still working on that coupling mount, which is the main cause of the issues over curves and points.

My Hattons 66 is fantastic, but those axleboxes - I've trimmed and glued a couple as was fed up of re-gluing every 20 minutes' running or so ... now appears to operate without 'loss' and hauls - virtually anything possible!! Fantastic performer - smooth, slow, and still has an exceptional turn of speed / power.

Al.

[threelink]

Although not a fan of the museum quality r-t-r models available today, for reasons of expense and fragility, I cannot help but admire them. Is it the case that such fine scale models will only run sucessfully on similarly fine scale track i.e. huge radius curves and dead level track?

[ColinB]

To be fair to Hornby threelink their museum quality locos run substantially better than a lot of their old ones mainly because of the better pickups and that there are more of them. Trouble is they throw in that excuse for quite often their lack of quality checks on poor motors. My layout is not completely level and the new Evening Star by Hornby runs brilliantly at both high and low speed. Now the Fell I bought definitely needs straight and level track but again that is because it isn't designed properly

[threelink]

@CO

I do not doubt that Hornby locos run well and I was not aiming any crticism at them or indeed any other manufacturer. I have a lot of older Hornby Lima and Triang locos, some re-wheeled and others not, and all run perfectly well (i.e.slowly smoothly and quietly) on code 100 track and many on code 75. without extra pick ups. I read a lot of complaints about derailments and poor running of some present day offerings and was just wondering whether it is trackwork that is to blame, rather than the locos. To me it makes sense that a modern fine scale loco will be more track sensitive than an older, cruder version of the same thing.

[Going Spare]

Perhaps, then, the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of ultimate realism and sophistication at the expense of being able to deal with the conditions on the 'average' modeller's layout.

But the demand for such models exists from collectors rather than operators, a market that manufacturers can ill-afford to ignore.

Expansion of the range of Railroad-style models in terms of both specification and price may be the way forward - Hornby returning to the (Tri-ang) days of mass production?

But their own re-launch of TT may have truly put a cat among the 00 pigeons by diverting a lot of their overall potential market on space and cost grounds.

[atom3624]

@threelink, from what I've observed, perfectly level track is definitely required, or well located, and to ensure the coupling heights match near-perfectly.

I find this 'self-centring' kinematic coupling arrangement is more pain than gain. It can be momentarily caught, then freed and move suddenly, pulling the bogie of locomotive / coach off the track. This is the main issue I'm having with the Deltic, having removed 'the chains'.

No issues with the Hattons 66 at all now - fantastic locomotive.

Al.

[threelink]

@GS

I'm not sure that I would want to see a return to Triang days - things have moved on - but something akin to Hornby Railrod would certainly be a boon to those who, like me, just want a working layout with reasonably realistic but reliable and robust locos and stock. I entirely take the point that collectors wanting detailed scale models cannot and indeed should not be ignored but at present, Hornby Railroad aside, there is not much choice in the retail market - it's expensive and fragile museum quality stuff or nothing. I long ago gave up any notion of spending large sums of money on a hobby and now cobble together locos and stock from bits of rubbish bought at train fairs, car boots and the like : it's great fun and dirt cheap.

[ColinB]

I was comparing a modern loco with my old ringfield powered ones. I did get the ringfield ones to work a bit better but you always have the issue of the traction tyres. You cannot pickup power from a wheel with a traction tyre on.

[threelink]

@CO

Fair point well made. Personally I do not have the traction tyre problem on most of my loco because the mechs are so old that they pre-date the use of traction tyres. I have not had any problem on the few with tyres but would add tender pick ups if I did - obviously this will not work with tank engines. I have found it necessary permanently to couple a few short wheelbase 0-4-0 shunters to a wagon fitted with pick ups, to achieve smooth slow running.

[The son of Triangman]

Colin, this has no contact issues, 6 traction tyres on too. Pulls a house.

[atom3624]

I pulled out a 'recent super detail' Class 87, and found it 'hiccup'ing over some rails and points, so gave a minor service.

It's reasonably heavy, 8WD - twin-bogie powered.

Nice to see the bogie frames better-secured with a screw, not just clipped on, but I found 2 axles weren't picking up - probably never had been - as the wipers weren't touching the wheels!

All wheels cleaned, touch of oil, all replaced, and she's as super smooth and powerful as ever. QC is definitely an issue and I've had many steamies / tenders with tender pickups, which had never been even slightly opened to touch the wheels.

Al.