Reattach Hornby A4 Buffer Beam

[Train Mad1707822774]

Hello.

I've found this forum very helpful to me as what you'd probably class as a newbie. I have a Hornby A4 which I recently purchased and the front buffer beam has come away in the box, it is not broken just appears to have dropped off. I have searched this forum and elsewhere and I can't find anything which states what glue to use, I am sure this question has already been answered but if it has I can't seem to find it.

I got the loco off an auction site and it was said to be new/other, I don't think it has ever been run looking at the wheels but there where two items one was a wheel on the front bogie on which the tyre (I think thats what it's called) was loose, this was easy I just squeezed it back and it seems fine. The buffer beam looks like it will be easy to glue back on but I am worried about glue being visible on the outside of the loco, I have ever build superglue gp as recommended by someone on this forum, Tamiya extra fine cement and deluxe materials glue n glaze, I also have other glues but I'm sure they won't be suitable. I also can see glue towards the back of the buffer beam and it doesn't look like it's been pressed to the bodyshell, it looks like a tiny bubble and there is no sign of glue on the bodyshell at all.

I think the superglue is the one to use but thought I'd ask here before I attempt to reattach and possibly ruin the loco.

Thanks in advance for any help received it will be very much appreciated.

[LTSR_NSE]

Before doing any repairs have you tested that the loco functions properly? (not all eBay sellers are genuine/honest & some will attempt to sell things as ‘new’ that are anything but).

Visible glue remnants can indicate where a previous repair has already been attempted and yet has failed!

If however you are completely satisfied with the above (and don’t wish to return the loco as damaged/incorrectly described)...

Then firstly you will want to remove any existing glue traces and ensure the surfaces to be glued are completely clean to ensure a decent join. After that applying a tiny amount of superglue with pin or needle would be appropriate. Be aware that the buffer beam should be attached to the body shell and not the chassis.

[ColinB]

Yes these fall off regularly, fortunately you have the part. Superglue on a cocktail stick works well. Hornby seem to use glue that fails after a couple of years. To be fair they can never be right, put enough glue on and the Customer complains about glue residue, not enough and the part falls off.

[Train Mad1707822774]

Thanks to both of you for your speedy response. I now know what to do, I will get rid of the very small amount of glue which I am sure is how it left the factory. I will try the loco after I've done the repair. The seller has very good feedback and I tend to believe him when he said it belonged to his father and had only been taken out of the box but never used, the loco apart from the two issues I mentioned is absolutely mint and so is the box. Thanks again for your help

[The son of Triangman]

A tiny bit of POR adhesive applied using a needle or toothpick, will fix it in place. Leave for a week for the bond to dry and it's job done.

[Topcat2018]

I have had buffer beams fall off A4s in the past. The way I fix them is as follows:

1. remove the loco body. You can't do a proper job and guarantee not to get glue on the outside otherwise.
2. remove the plastic piece inside the body to which the chassis is attached by unscrewing the two self-tapping screws
3. clean off any old glue as far as possible, then push the buffer beam back into place.
4. apply quick-curing epoxy adhesive on the inside over the join between the buffer beam and the body, taking care not to get any on sprung buffers if fitted.

I find epoxy adhesive far superior to superglue for these jobs as it can fill gaps. It takes about 5 minutes to cure initially so pieces can be adjusted and it reaches full strength after a few hours.

[Train Mad1707822774]

I've got the loco in a cradle with the front bogie removed waiting for attention, it's been like that for a couple of weeks maybe longer. I've taken note of what's been suggested and will attempt a repair when I pluck up courage. I am very grateful for the help I've received it's really nice when others are prepared to help, I didn't expect to get much if any response to my problem which must seem elementary to an experienced modeller. Once again thank you for your help it's much appreciated.

[atom3624]

Try a few 'dry runs', to see how it fits - the alignment and any gaps which you may be able to massage closer.

Once happy, then as mentioned above, and keep any 'slight excess' to a minimum and on the inside of where's visible.

Any excess in visible areas carefully wipe ASAP and may be invisible to all bar you - you'll ALWAYS see it - trust me - got the t-shirt!

Al.

[The son of Triangman]

POR is especially designed for the type plastic used in loco bodies and used in other applications. It's a superior adhesive to superglue and most two part epoxy resins. Remove the loco body as has been said before you refit the offending part.

[Train Mad1707822774]

I've just ordered a tube of POR glue as recommended by The son of Triangman. It won't come till Monday the 13th so it'll be a job for next weekend, I must say I'm not looking forward to it. I intend to apply it to the inside over the join as recommended by Topcat. I will let you know how I get on. Many thanks again for all the advice given which is very much appreciated.

[atom3624]

A couple of my super detail A4's had a similar issue.

I verified the fit, and finding them 'nice and tight' I set the location and reverified the stance / alignment a few times.

Once happy, I carefully lined on the inside using superglue - didn't move again!

No signs of any seepage to the outside.

This mirrors your plan, and confirms it should work perfectly.

Al.

[Topcat2018]

@The son of Triangman

POR adhesive sounds interesting. It doesn't seem to be a solvent glue like Plastic Weld and it says it can also be used for card and paper, so what makes it special compared to cheaper general purpose adhesives?

As I've said my favourite adhesive for most jobs is two-part epoxy. It's good for filling gaps and has good shear strength, so fine for re-attaching buffer beams. Its main drawback is that it doesn't have good peel strength on smooth surfaces, they have to be roughened.

[The son of Triangman]

POR is specially formulated to work on polystrene injection moulded plastics and expanded polystyrene, styrofoam too. Polystyrene plastics are generally used for models etc. It takes time to dry, but once dry forms a rock hard bond. I've done many successful repairs over the decades with it.

[The son of Triangman]

This is POR, I always have a tube on the workbench.

[Train Mad1707822774]

Just a little update I've removed the remaining glue, this was easy as the glue was only in the middle between the two locating lugs. I then had a look at the instructions before attempting to remove the Loco body and it states that there is a speedo cable or lubricator. I hadn't actually noticed this because it was mostly hidden by the valance, I have ordered what I think is the correct tool for the job hornby r913 con rod nut spanner. This tool should arrive in a few days so it'll be a job for next weekend. Just thought I'd keep you posted as to my progress and I will let you know when I've finished it. Many thanks again to all.

[Train Mad1707822774]

Hello.

Just another little update I couldn't get the hornby tool to fit the crankpin so I bought another one made by expo tools, I couldn't get that one to fit either. So today I had a go at applying the glue without taking the body off I managed it without causing any glue marks, my only concern after using a cocktail stick very carefully is that I might not have applied enough glue. I will leave it for a week and see if it's secure. Thanks again for the help given it really is much appreciated.

[atom3624]

Hi TM, all part of the learning curve we are all continually on ....

Too little is better than too much. If it does come off, you now know how to align, perhaps clean the edges, and match up perfectly.

By crankpins, do you mean the little pins/rivets holding the linkages together, or the crankpin / sockets which push into the wheels? If the latter, they're easy to remove and replace.

Al.

[Train Mad1707822774]

Hi Atom3624.

I really don't think I've put enough glue on but it's nice to know I can have another try if needed.

Regarding the crankpin (I think that's what it's called but not sure) it's a small bolt shaped like a nut and it holds the speedo as well as the rods to the wheels. The tools I bought I thought were what was needed but they don't seem to fit.

I did think about using pliers but was concerned that I might round the nuts or do some other damage, I am a bit clumsy, last week Whilst tightening screws on my baseboard my drill slipped and broke one of my fingernails. Many thanks for your speedy reply it's put my mind at rest.

[atom3624]

The hex headed bolt - crankpin is fair description - generally requires a 2.5mm sized hex driver, certainly for a later A4.

(I've recently received a Peckett, which actually requires a 2.0mm driver.)

Sometimes these may have been deformed slightly by people using pliers - I did initially as well!

You're obviously familiar with these things, but word of warning, be very careful to align properly, but never over-tighten - they snap very easily!! (I have a couple of t-shirts on this one!)

Al.

[Train Mad1707822774]

Hi.

Just another little update, I do hope I'm not making a nuisance of myself. I looked at the loco yesterday and as soon as I touched the buffers they dropped off. I suspect it was probably not just much the amount of glue but also where I had applied it. I had put the glue at the back of the seam thinking it would seep through and this didn't happen.

In view of this I've just had another attempt. First I cleaned all remnants of glue that I could, I then very carefully applied a tiny amount of glue using a cocktail stick to the top of the buffer beam and also the part of the body where it fits, I then waited for a minute or so although I think it should be longer but I was concerned that if I waited too long the glue might grab making it difficult to adjust. After this I positioned the parts carefully and squeezed them together no glue is visible at the front of the buffer beam or anywhere else so I'm quite pleased about that.

I am optimistic that this will work as I noticed the glue starting to grab when making final adjustments, it is possible I might not have used enough glue and may have to have another go next week.

Thanks again for your help and encouragement without which I'd probably have put it back on ebay.

[Train Mad1707822774]

I should have said I would have put it on ebay for spares or repair.

[Train Mad1707822774]

Just a little update on my buffer beam problem. After using UHU POR the buffer beam always had a little play, a couple of weeks ago I touched the spring buffers to see if it had possibly firmed up and it came away in my hand. I am not in any way saying the advice given was wrong I think that I hadn't used enough glue, I was concerned that too much might be visible on the body, if I had used more I'm sure it would have done the job. I have now used Everbuild superglue GP and had the same outcome. I don't think I'm using enough glue.

I have now found another problem with this Loco after trying it for the first time since purchase on a rolling road. The motor runs but the wheels don't turn, I believe this is the gear set which needs replacing. This set x8849 doesn't seem to be available.

I'll probably finish up selling it for spares or repair on that auction site. Taught me a lesson try your Locos straight away. I wonder how many others I've got that are faulty.

Thanks again for all the help

[atom3624]

Unusual with the buffer beam.

I've replaced a few without issue - either superglue or polystyrene cement.

Dry fit trial first, then figure out which surfaces to place the cement on to give 'the invisible bond' - excess on the inside.

Al.

[Rog RJ]

I would try superglue used with activator spray to set it instantly.

Clean off all traces of the old glue. Mask off as much as possible before starting to avoid white marks and staining, then apply glue and hold parts in place, then a quick squirt with activator for an instant bond.

[The son of Triangman]

It's unusual for POR to fail, however it's in a very difficult area and judging amount of glue is never easy with POR. However a superglue with an activator spray will probably do the job.