Second hand hornby Elite

[BADWOLF525]

So I bought a Elite its not been used to my knowledge works fine but when I switch it off all the settings reset so am guessing that it needs some sort of update is this correct?

Plus how do I trun on/off the lights that are connected to the R8247 port 3 with the Elite both points work fine just as a note thanks in advance BW

[96RAF]

The Elite has two memories, one is persistent and keeps names of locos and points or signal, but the session memory is volatile and is lost at power down. This includes the list of locos and points / signals you have selected during a session.

The solid data about locos and signals such as addresses, CV settings, etc is not lost as it is held in the associated decoder memory.

R8247 settings. Assuming your acc decoder is at factory default it holds addresses 1-4 on ports 1-4. To operate these you press the Acc button and the port address, then left or right speed knob for direction / light state. Now you need to be aware that the acc decoder port default output is a pulse. To operate a light you need to set the output to constant. How to do that is in the manuals, noting that you need the manual to match your device revision state.

Does your Elite need an update - watch the screen at startup and it tells you the version e.g. v1.45 which is the latest state. If yours is lower than this then download and install the Elite firmware update via your PC. You can get the firmware update from the main Hornby web site Support pages, software download area.

[P-Henny]

It would help greatly if you stated the firmware revision of the Elite (appears on screen during power up sequence).

Also please specify the "settings" you are refering to. Subject to what you are referring to, they may be settings that are not designed to be remembered. For example, if you mean the 10 slot memory that memorises the last 10 DCC addresses that have been controlled, then these are stored in volatile memory that is cleared when powered off. This is the case regardless of what firmware the Elite has.

With regard the R8247 lights question. What DCC Addresses have you configured for the four ports. Have you configured port 3 as 'Always On' which would be required to operate lights. What type of lights are they, bulb or LED. How have you wired the lights to port 3 are they lamp based signals using three wires or are they just basic layout lighting using two wires, if so which of the three R8247 port terminals are you connecting to.

So much more detail is required to enable a targeted response to be provided.

EDIT: 96RAF posted whilst I was still typing.

[BADWOLF525]

Right OK hear go's the R8247 has Been configured in RM and as the hornby FAQ address 005

channel

5/6=pulsed for points A&B 7=congratulations leds +- 12v 20ma

8 not used

I havent preprogrammed the Elite I have just plugged it in set up the points and put a train on it works fine so do the points note I can get the light to work but I have to change 006 =point 2 dile 2 on the Elite to 007 but doing this then only let's dile 2 turn the lights on or off pushing it of course but if I turn it off all this is lost. Can I only use the push Dails to switch points and the direction of the train or can I use them to turn the lights on plus I don't have the Elite plugged into the pc

[96RAF]

Using Address 5 gives you ports 5-8 as you have found out. RM makes it easy as you type in the first address and RM fills in the rest. Also the Always On tick box sets it up for up pulse or lights.

As I said before the speed knobs are your light or signal switches.

For a red - green signal then all three connections are used on the port + C - (note the + and - are not polarities just selection of this way and that way). One knob lights red and the other knob lights green.

For a simple on/off light then you use C along with either + or -, then one of the speed knobs turns the light on snd the other turns it off.

You still need to tell us the firmware state of your Elite .

[P-Henny]

As well as the firmware, when it powers up does the screen say "Standard" or "Classic".

Just a point of clarification. Since in your last reply you wrote:

"plus I don't have the Elite plugged into the pc"

Are you saying that you just used Railmaster to configure the R8247, but once configured you disconnected RM (PC) from the Elite and are just using the Elite knobs and buttons to control the layout and that you no longer use RM for any layout control tasks.

P.S

You still haven't made it clear whether the LEDs are being used for signals or layout lighting.

LEDs are polarity sensitive. They might not be lighting up if you have them wired the wrong way round. The positive side of the LED has to connect to the C terminal and the negative side of the LEDs connect to either the + terminal and/or the - terminal which are both switched negatives.

This means that any LED based dual aspect signals that you purchase (if signals are being used) have to be 'common positive'. This can be an issue as many commercially made and purchased 'ready to run' dual aspect signals are made 'common negative' and will not work directly wired to a R8247 unless a polarity conversion circuit is added between the signal and the R8247 port. A circuit to do this using two transistors and a few discreet components has historically been previously published on the forum.

[BADWOLF525]

It's says hornby DCC V. 1 at startup yes I know how to operate the lights in RM its how am I going to turn them on and off with the the Elite as I won't be using RM any longer controls 1&2 on the Elite move both the points or trains so how do I get on of them to work the leds I configured the ACC with RM I have never plugged the Elite into the pc the Elite is to replace the RM as to the leds. it's the address 007 if I assign it to either 1or 2 it stops what ever was assigned to the control before and will now only turn said light on and off and not move the point the leds are for lighting the engine shead and not stoping lights

[P-Henny]

Assuming that your firmware is indeed version 1.0 as your last reply indicates.

I suggest that before you pursue your issue any further that you first upgrade the Elite firmware from version 1.0 to the current version 1.45

The firmware update files are downloadable from the support section of the Hornby website. You will also need to connect the Elite to your PC and let Windows install the Elite USB driver via 'plug n play' before running the firmware installer. If your RM installation on your PC was previously using an eLink, then the Windows driver for the Elite will already be installed, as it uses the same driver as an eLink. If you are using a different PC to the one with RM on it, do not use the Elite driver included in the download firmware pack if your Windows is 7 or above. The downloaded firmware pack driver version is only for Windows 98, XP, 2000 & Vista. The driver download pack includes 'how to' instructions as the Elite also has to be put into a special firmware upgrade operation mode before the upgrade can be performed.

Once upgraded you will also have to download the Elite 1.45 manual from the Hornby website support section as 'how to use the Elite' is different when using the 1.45 version.

[BADWOLF525]

My pc has RM and the elink on the pc it's windows 11 do I just unplug the elink and plug the Elite in its place can you post links to the software and how to use it please thanks

[96RAF]

V1.0 was the clockwork Elite and so far removed from the latest version that you really need to sit down and read the book for the latest firmware.

The Elite firmware download is easy to find from the Support pages, then Software downloads or even from the Elite product page if memory serves me right.

Given your demonstrated skill level so far we will have to spoon feed you through this, so go and fetch the download, hook the Elite up to your PC and note the Com Port being useful. Park the update.exe file on your desktop so it is easy to get at.

Then we will take it to the next step from there..

[P-Henny]

Badwolf,

The following URL (copy and paste it into your browser) will take you to the firmware download page.

https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360016116880-Hornby-Elite-Updates

You need to download and save the ZIP file at the top of the list which will need to be unzipped to extract the files contained within it. You will also need to download and save the W10 PDF for the instructions (W10 instructions also applicable to W11).

The following URL will take you to the Elite 1.41 to 1.45 manual PDF to download.

https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360016160599-R8214-Hornby-Elite-Manual

From now on I am going to drop out of this thread and leave 96RAF to guide you through the rest of the firmware update process.

[BADWOLF525]

Thanks very much for your help av updated it now and reads on startup hornby standed v1. 45 am now going to filled with it and if the update have sorted it out..... Well all seems to be fine now I get what you meant about how to turn the lights on and off thanks again guys its still losing all the points and acc info

[P-Henny]

Elite V1.0 firmware pre-dates the R8247 decoder product. Thus it would appear that you only had partial compatibility until you updated the firmware to a version that fully recognises the later R8247.

As stated before, no firmware version supports retaining the volatile memory after a power down and that is something you will have to comporomise on.

[96RAF]

A way round the volatile memory is to save your locos as Favourites in the Elite, but that is as much faff finding the Favourites list as stacking locos into the ESC list as you use them each session.

This lists the main features of each firmware update...

Firmware Release Notes:

Version 1.1 - Emergency Stop fixed so that locos remain stopped after power recovery. Improvement to Railcom reading from Lenz Gold decoder.

Version 1.2 - Complete compliance with NMRA standards and RPs. Compatible with Traincontroller software. Initial direction of loco is changed from reverse to forward. Bug fix for speed display updating when loco is changed. Short circuit timing changed to support Reverse Loop Module and Signal Booster. Bug fix for analogue loco (address 0). Railcom default setting changed for Operations mode reading. Bug fix for controller knob 2 switching functions of knob 1.

Version 1.3 - Introduction of Standard and Classic modes.

Version 1.4 - Support for 29 functions (F0-F28) in momentary or latching modes. Support for dummy car programming. Simplified switching of locos and accessories in control stack. Sapphire decoder support for features. Several user reported bug fixes.

Version 1.41 - Controller lockup fixed. Speed knob selection logic changed. Programming of R8215 decoders fixed. Reboot in last mode. Minor display anomalies fixed.

Version 1.42 - Dummy car programming wasnt working - fixed. Improved support for Bachmann decoders. Display corruption in Operate mode mode fixed. Support for Select v1.5.

Version 1.43 - Xpressnet response fix from Elite Emergy Stop recovery. Bug fix in TTS decoder programming and reading in service mode. Quicker response with Select in Walkabout mode. Feedback from hand controllers to Elite screen. POM for suitable accessory decoders. 

Version 1.44 - Elite not handling TTS diesel functions F5-F8 correctly - fixed.

Version 1.45 - Elite not handling Sapphire decoder fuel burn utility correctly - fixed.

[BADWOLF525]

So are you saying that everytime I switch it off and then bk on again I have to re setup all the points and loco ids every time there's power lost yes av read about the fav list would reprogramming the ACC with the Elite solve the point problem ps could I add the point address's in the fav or is that just for loco adress

[P-Henny]

So are you saying that everytime I switch it off and then back on again I have to re setup all the points and loco ids every time there's power lost.

 

 

Really not sure what you mean by this. The DCC Addresses are saved in the decoders and don't need re-programming everytime you power up the system. The Elite in its most basic form is a DCC Address controller. This requires you to memorise all your loco and point DCC Addresses or have an 'aide memoir' DCC Address look-up cheat sheet nearby. You then enter the DCC address number to control a device each time you want to select it. This is no different to many controllers.

As long as you control devices using their DCC Address then there is no setting up of DCC Id's required. As previously stated, the Elite keeps a scrollable list of the last 10 devices controlled, but this list is cleared at power down.

You can name a Loco (the manual doesn't say if the naming feature applies to points as well). The manually assigned names are stored after a power down. The naming feature is a bit like having a DCC Address 'cheat sheet' configured in the controller.

It is Railmaster software used in conjunction with the Elite (or eLink) that provides all the point and click and naming features that you appear to desire.

There are other non-Hornby controllers that do have features to display named devices on screen that you manually set up and are stored. These controllers typically have a great big colour screen to provide support for these features. The large screen is something the Elite doesn't have.

[96RAF]

Points can be named also - part of the features menu from memory.

I can’t see what all the fuss is about. Each loco and point knows who it is and sits there waiting for a shout from the controller. You do that by entering a loco or point address and telling it what to do. Ditto for the next one. These selections are held in memory until power down. That is no different to how you do it in RM, you select a loco or point on screen and tell it what you want it to do.

I assume you are not re-programming each loco decoder before use at every session, as once you give a decoder it’s address that is locked in until you want to change it - if ever.

[ColinB]

I think the issue is that Elite loses the majority of the entered data after power down. Perfectly ok if you are just testing something out, but for a sensible system in the 21st Century sadly lacking. I think that was the first thing that hit me with the Elite, the fact that once you power off you virtually lose everything. As a cheap DCC controller it is perfectly ok, but unfortunately it is not cheap anymore. I use mine for programming which it is really good at, on my main layout I use a Digikeijs which I think is brilliant although on RMWeb they are not so enthusiastic.