Affordable Tablet for running The HMDCC App

[dBerriff]

I do not think moving to Bluetooth is a gimmick. It improves accessibility (1) to DCC for many users, especially once the Android (more affordable) version of the app is out. In my opinion and that of many others, Bluetooth is also likely to significantly simplify baseboard wiring once the technology to control accessories over the medium is more widely accessible. Hornby has made a start with the HM6010 unit but there is a lot more to come.

(1) I base this on the observation that many users appear to enjoy using the app and have stated that it makes working with, for example, CV numbers a lot easier. I include myself in this group.

[Moccasin]

While the app works really well on my iPhone, I may move everything across to my iPad Pro. It's a shame you can't have decoders assigned to an account rather than a device, maybe that will be a future feature? Hopefully, it will also be usable on MacOS as well, like HM DC, as that introduces a whole new opportunity. Similarly, the Android app being usable in Chrome etc would be fantastic.

I also see Bluetooth as being a really good feature with huge potential. The Next18 sound decoder fits in my TT scale Flying Scotsman with no problem and I daresay at some point the decoders will be shrunk further to allow HM7000 sound in smaller locomotives such as the 08 and smaller tank engines. This is the first generation and so much will have been learned already.

The technology has the potential to really open out the hobby to a whole new audience of modellers who are intimidated by the electronics aspect. As @dBerriff says, if Bluetooth can help simplify automation of accessories, then there'll be major benefits. It won't stop the purists and all those who enjoy that element from continuing their passion but will allow/encourage new entrants to the hobby.

HM7000 and its mobile device/Bluetooth interface is clearly another key plank in Hornby's plan to broaden the appeal and practicality of railway modelling, along with TT scale. That should be seen as a good thing for all who want to see the hobby flourish and it would be sad to see petty squabbles get in the way.

[dBerriff]

I see untruths being spread on other forums and on YouTube. All I would say to newcomers is to ask on here if you have any doubts or concerns, or at least insist on evidence to back up the assertions that some contributors (not here) are making.

[Brew Man]

I do not think moving to Bluetooth is a gimmick. It improves accessibility (1) to DCC for many users, especially once the Android (more affordable) version of the app is out. In my opinion and that of many others, Bluetooth is also likely to significantly simplify baseboard wiring once the technology to control accessories over the medium is more widely accessible. Hornby has made a start with the HM6010 unit but there is a lot more to come.

(1) I base this on the observation that many users appear to enjoy using the app and have stated that it makes working with, for example, CV numbers a lot easier. I include myself in this group.

 

 

I'm not sure how significantly baseboard wiring would be simplified. Track and accessories would still need to be powered by wires.

 

 

[96RAF]

@mocassin

The app is tied to your Hornby account but each decoder is linked to the device that finds it. Once a device has linked to a decoder no other device can see it for security reasons. Imagine if you had the app on your phone and were at a show and could grab any such decoders and operate them.

@ brewman

how about fibre-optic Tx - Rx modules. I use them to drastically reduce wiring of sensors back to the ‘collector box’. This is a 6 channel pair. (Photo credit Ed Cairns the modules designer).

[Bulleidboy]

I expect DCC was seen as a "gimmick" when it was first introducedslightly_frowning_face

[Moccasin]

I do appreciate the need for security and that’s why I thought this could be achieved by linking decoders securely to an account but across multiple devices signed into that account. As long as the account is secure, then there should be no security risk of malicious use. That’s maybe something for the future. It might actually be helpful in some cases if you could allow others to temporarily control a locomotive or accessory and then take back control afterwards.

[ColinB]

Well we will see. DCC was implemented by many manufacturers so by that action it ceases to be a gimmick. Yes if you are starting from scratch then yes this might be an option. I like the bit about the decoders getting smaller, 96RAF has already pointed out that it has to be a certain size for the bluetooth aerial. Then have you ever looked at the actual decoders, the surface mount components are miniscule, I sure it it isn't but some of it looks like thick film circuitry. The big issue is how is any modeller going to fit it to say a Hornby Terrier.

[Brew Man]

@96RAF

Yes I was thinking along similar lines while typing, Rob but was really commenting purely on current conventional DCC but with the addition of Bluetooth connectivity.

[96RAF]

@brew man

Although Bluetooth allows the commands to be sent over the air the hardware still needs to be hard-wired. One idea is to have say single point motor decoders that clip into the track to milk track power with the option - design dependant - of retaking conventional DCC control, similar to HM6010 4-way modules.

[Brew Man]

Yes I know, Rob, that's what I was saying to DB.

[dBerriff]

Sorry; had to drop out of the discussion for a few hours there. I have been busy helping with a public model railway which, as it happens, shows a stark contrast between the newer sections which have structured wiring and the older baseboards that are something of a horror story when you see the wiring.

96RAF’s fibre-optic link is exactly what I was thinking of, but with a radio link. You can now place a lot of the control logic right next to the components without blowing the budget. Shorter wiring means fewer connectors means fewer failure points and easier documentation.

A Raspberry Pi Pico W with WiFi (and soon usable Bluetooth) costs just over £7 and will easily control 8 servos and 8 relays. There are Arduino, ESP32 and other alternative microprocessor boards I should mention. One or two microprocessors per baseboard are easily affordable.

Even cheaper microprocessors are already available, if not yet mainstream, and cost-effectiveness will only get more compelling.

You do need power busses of course, one for the track and one for accessories, but these can now be installed without being hidden under a cat’s-cradle of control wires. The sum total is simplified and is easier to document and understand.

None of this mandatory - your layout, your choice. But the technology is here and the software is moving forwards.

[96RAF]

96RAF’s fibre-optic link is exactly what I was thinking of, but with a radio link. You can now place a lot of the control logic right next to the components without blowing the budget. Shorter wiring means fewer connectors means fewer failure points and easier documentation.

Strange you should say that - an earlier attempt…

The radio module is top left corner. Suffered from Comms problems.

Happy to chin-wag off line about all of this.

(credit to Ed Cairns again)

[Moccasin]

The benefit of the HM 7000 system in my eyes is that all this electronic devilry is hidden from view for prospective modellers and they can benefit from modern control methods without consulting Electronics for Dummies books.

Those who want to push the boundaries can do so, of course, but the system, as it matures, seems destined to make our hobby more accessible to those who can’t even wire a plug*.

* for the avoidance of doubt, I can change a plug and have also changed an electric shower several times and lived to tell the tale.

[96RAF]

@mocassin

That is exactly what SK is always stating, make it plug ‘n play and if possible avoid wires.

Apologies to the OP as the thread has wandered off topic.

[Dale-380953]

Hi,

I am just getting into modelling railways and will be using the HM7000 system running TT:120, can anyone confirm that the Lenovo M10 3rd Gen 10.1 inch 64GB Wi-Fi Tablet mentioned by Meatloaf above is compatible or is there a better option now?

thanks

 

[Daedalus]

How long is a piece of string?

Arg*s is currently offering the later higher spec Lenovo Tab M10 Plus 10.6 Inch 128GB Tablet - Grey for the same price.

[Dale-380953]

Daedalus, thanks had n't spotted that one, just to check that the App will run on that? it has Android 12 or later operating system.

[SteveM6]

Yes it will run on that one.

[ntpntpntp]

I'm running the app on a Doogee U10 128Gb I bought in the last Amazon Black Friday sale for about £65.

I'm not a fan of touch screen tablets nor phones but I wanted something compact to control gig lighting hardware, so I thought might as well buy an HM7000 decoder and play with it in my TT:120 A4.

[Daedalus]

Arg*s is currently offering the later higher spec Lenovo Tab M10 Plus 10.6 Inch 128GB Tablet - Grey for the same price.

At the price I decided to get one myself.The device setup copied the App and data from the old Android 9 tablet and ran after granting the requested location permission.

Running the App simultaneously on both tablets resulted in each having a host, I only have 2 locos so don't know how additional locos would get allocated.

As expected the App was much more responsive.

P.S. You can actually control both locos from either tablet even though they are showing in red.

[SteveM6]

Having seen your original post, I treated myself to the M10 and an armoured case as it will live with the layout.

Very pleased so far - the large screen is a godsend.

I'm now in the process of transferring the locos in the engine shed - all 52 of them!

[Daedalus]

It'll be interesting to find out how responsive it is running more than 2 locos.

P.S. They may be selling them so cheaply because they have 2023 on the packaging.

[96RAF]

@daedalus

Being able to run the same loco from multiple devices has been reported previously and should not be possible, but it obviously is.

[Daedalus]

I think they've overlooked the fact that new tablets offer to copy your old apps and data etc. from the old tablet and leave the old tablet unchanged so you end up with 2 identical images and don't go through the unlinking/linking process.

At least it shows the linking is not dependent on the mac address of the tablet.