My first iPad but which one?

[paul_garwood]

I don't own an iPad, but I will need one to operate the new HM7000 software, but I have no idea which one to purchase? which is best, Android or Apple? and do they have to have a certain version level?

[SteveM6]

iPads will need iOS version 13 or better. Android still need some to be tested by the test team but there are plenty of android tablets available at much more competitive prices than iPads. Clearly a more recent version of android would be preferable. Guidance on operating system compatibility will be available once android testing starts (hopefully in the next few days).

[paul_garwood]

Thank You, I will look out for this..

[Daedalus]

Further to the above

[SteveM6]

Daedalus, we’ve not released anything regarding system requirements because we haven’t started testing Android yet.

As soon as we know, you will be advised.

[Daedalus]

Strange last Wrdnesday's Youtube said it was out for testing. The basic system requirements that code was written for must be known

[P-Henny]

The basic system requirements that code was written for must be known.

 

 

What it is written for and what it works on can be two completely different things.

I think that Hornby are wise not to give any indication until testing has proved the theory different manufacturer's Android product compatibility.

I cite the DC controller issue as a case in point. Hornby's early pre-release documentation said HM7000 would work on 'set' controller power. It now transpires that there are issues with 'set' controllers and HM7000.

[Daedalus]

The software must have been compiled, therefore the system requirements are known.

I sincerely hope they are not writing their code on a "theory"

[SteveM6]

Actually on the video they said that it was being tested in house with the intention of handing over to the beta testing team in the next week with a release to the public hopefully in four weeks. They also explained about compatibility with android machines - it’s not just the system requirements, it’s also the need for the app to resize to suit whichever device is in use, of which there are many hundreds, if not thousands.

[Moccasin]

the 9th generation iPad is more than enough at £369. While more pricey than Android, it’ll probably last 6 years or so.

other options if you can’t wait:

• Apple refurb store gives 15% or so off. Usually models that have been returned (Apple offer a no quibbles 2 week return period) - there’s an iPad mini there for £339. Tested and full warranty
• Apple’re also doing 24 months interest free credit on purchases of £400 or more until 1st May. So £15 or so per month.
• Cex offer used Apple goods at decent prices
• if you can get hold of the last iPod Touch (7th gen, Amazon etc), they run iOS 15 which is enough for HM7000 - essentially an iPhone without calling capability. £160 or so

[Daedalus]

£339 for second hand? If they would release the minimum requirements you could probably get an Androit tablet £40-£100 depending on screen size.

The App must be written in C++ or similar. It has to be compiled for the Arm Procesor. Compilers have flags, you can compile it for the latest top of the range processor or more conservatively or very conservatively for a very old proccesor with 2 cores if you think it will run.

Hornby must know the spec for the App they gave to the programers so why won't they say what flags were set in the compiler and put us out of our misery.

[Fishmanoz]

Will be interesting to see if the Android and iOS versions actually end up with the same functionality and performance in practice and across all of the hardware that can run them.

I have experience with such an app which performs differently under each OS, particularly in early development days. It also has an annoying ability to almost slow to a halt on the Android version if it’s history isn’t continually emptied.

I can understand HM being reluctant to release more detail until after extended testing. At the least.

[Moccasin]

Was not saying it was the cheapest option, just an alternative for those who want to play model straight away and are unwilling to wait weeks for the Android app to come out.

If used at all, then only for a few days and then returned. By having the free return option, some will buy a product and then decide they need more storage, different colour etc. They all get a new battery, new outer casing and then fully tested before going back on sale in refurb packaging. It was a £60 discount I think. The iPad mini is a nice size as it can slip into a large pocket. I’m using my iPhone at the moment but it’s an option for me for the future.

[ColinB]

Generally if Hornby want this to be a success they need to get the Android version to market as quickly as possible. Android seems to be the preferred platform for most people, plus it's products are a lot cheaper. Generally it seems the IT community favors Apple, historically it was a much easier platform to work with as Apple strictly enforced what you could do and licensing. We are already beginning to realise that this product is too big for many locos.

I would wait for the Android version, it gives Hornby a bit more time to sort out their undocumented features and a bigger user market, to comment on how good it really is. Lets face it you can probably get a top of the range Android base pad for the price of a refurbished Apple one. The thing to also remember is my DigiKeijs plus a second hand laptop to run it, was cheaper than the prices you are quoting for a refurbished IPad.

[Moccasin]

Hornby know that they need to get the Android version out and are working on it, but with so many variations in models it takes time to test. It sounds like it will be late April/early May before it’s released, if testing goes well.

Like I say, I was merely suggesting ways that cheaper iOS/iPadOS devices can be found if required, or for those unprepared to wait. Better to wait as you say, especially if you’re on a tight budget, as the cost could pay for 2 locomotives or several decoders.

[ColinB]

Yes Moccasin I totally agree with you.

[Chris-351013]

iPad mini 2 (IOS 12.5.7) 2013

doesn't work with the app.

Hadn't read the general compatibility guidance re devices 5yr old or newer, before I bought it.

That said, elsewhere, devices more than 5 years old are reported ok (iPhone 7 2016?)

Wouldn't it be helpful if there were some clearer, reliable, guidance available?

[SteveM6]

It has been mentioned quite a few times on the forum that iOS 12.5.7 is not currently compatible although I understand some work is going on to see if it can be ‘persuaded’ to comply.

Watch this space, particularly regarding android tablet compatibility as they are significantly cheaper than iPads should you choose to upgrade from your old iPad.

I am in exactly the same boat, old iPad, new android phone and tablet and a strong WiFi signal in the railway room - all I need now is the witchcraft of the app.

Watch this space.

[Moccasin]

The iPad Mini 2 was launched in 2013 and discontinued in 2017 according to Wikipedia. Crucially, the latest operating system it can run is iOS 12. The iPhone 7 was launched in 2017 I think and can run ios15 (which was current software version until Sept last year).

Based on that, iPad 5th generation and later, iPad Air 3rd generation and later and iPad mini 4th generation or later seem to run the iPadOS 15 or later.

These Apple models should last at least a couple of major version changes of the HM7000 app. The later iPad/iPhone you can afford, the better obviously.

iPod Touch 7th & 8th gen also run at least ios15 and are a cheaper alternative to the iPhone. Argos are currently selling iPod Touch 7 for £185.

Edit: iPod Touch 7 has Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and therefore has enough capability for the HM7000 app. It’s screen is about the same size as iPhone 7.

iPad 5th gen from 2017 runs iPadOS16 and is on sale refurbished from about £140

[Daedalus]

I wouldn't bother according to the App Store the Hornby App requires iOS 11 which only supports 64 bit proccessors! Good luck trying to run it on a 2 core 32 bit proccesor.

I understand some work is going on to see if it can be ‘persuaded’ to comply.

It needs recompiling at a mininum not persuading!.

Why do we have to rely on extremely vague statements? Why can't they just state the minimum requirements for both versions of the app.

[Moccasin]

I think iOS11 was the point at which 32 bit support was dropped.

Presumably theoretically it can run on iOS11 but probably hasn’t been tested that far back.

it may actually be related to device RAM needed to run the app. iOS 13 apparently dropped support for hardware with less than 2GB of RAM, which includes iPad Mini 2. That could be the reason why in practice the app doesn’t work with 11 & 12.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Generally a "top-of-the-range" Android tablet will cost round about the same as an iPad with similar specification. There are however a lot of cheaper Android tablets around.

The main thing you need to be aware of with Android is that is the device manufacturer who determines when, or whether, you can upgrade to a newer version of Android. Generally updates are only made available for a limited period. There are a large number of often fairly recent Android devices that cannot be upgraded, so Android apps are generally written for relatively old OS versions. Android devices can also have custom versions of Android unique to the device's manufacturer — especially with tablets as Android’s support for their larger screens is limited. Android tablets may have either ARM or Intel processors.

If you are interested in a tablet generally, not just as a control device, then there is much more tablet-oriented software available for iPads.

With an iPad you need to be aware that the amount of storage is fixed and cannot be expanded later. You will probably need more than you expect!

[Moccasin]

The danger is that we don’t know what actual Android compatibility will be until it’s released.

if you are willing to consider any tablet as long as it runs HM7000 app, you’d be better waiting until the Android version is released into the wild in a few weeks and see what Android tablets work well with it. There’s no point buying now as you can’t use it for Hm7000 until the app is released anyway.

If you can’t wait, then any iPad from iPad generation 5 onwards will run the current iPadOS app as all will be able to run iPadOS 15. You can get refurbished or used models for £150+ I think. Or, if you have an Apple Store nearby, you could buy an iPad 9th gen for £369 and try it for a week or so before returning it at no cost if you don’t like it. Apple are doing 24 months interest free credit currently as well.

[96RAF]

If you can try an iPad from a private seller or in store simply get them to install the app and see if it works. A 2 minute task.

My 2019 iPad Air gen3 v12.5.7 will install the app but not open it. It has 3Gb ram thus decrying the 2Gb minimum requirement set by the app developers. They are still working this one.

[Chris-351013]

A couple of eBay purchases later (one slightly unintended) I can confirm, as one might expect, that the app works fine on the iPad 6th Generation (2018) £80

& iPhone SE 2020 £55

Have to mention that the 4.7" display on the iPhone SE feels tiny (c/w my 7" Android regular phone).