Hornby Loco R2227 (DCC decoder question)

[Buddy815]

Hi,

I have one of these locos, purchased from new and finally I would like to convert it to DCC. I live in the US so I was trying decoders over here, so Hornby decoders are not easily available, I got 2 Digitrax decoders and both are 8 pin and when I install them, there is a small hint of smoke from the loco. It is perfect in DC mode, there is nothing from the motor, it only happens when I connect a DCC decoder to the loco. I am reaching out to see if anyone has one of these locos and if so, does it work with any other decoder other than Hornby? I am trying to avoid if possible getting one shipped from the UK. If I have to get one, I just have to get one. I could look at converting to DCC sound if anyone has advice or an quick how to as I assume I would have to wire to the tender for the speaker.

Thanks to anyone in advance on any guidance you can provide.

[P-Henny]

There is nothing special about Hornby locos and Hornby decoders, so any brand with a suitable spec should work in the loco. If you are seeing smoke and excess heat then there is an issue with the loco or decoder you are using.

Have you done a DC 'stall test' on the loco to confirm that the current draw of the loco is within the decoder specification?

How to do a 'stall test' is linked to in the pinned sticky "Useful Links" thread at the top of the 'General Discussion' forum.

Regarding sound. The Hattons website indicates that there is provision within the loco for a 23mm round speaker. The location of the speaker provision isn't stated, but if there are four wires connecting the loco to the tender via a four way white JST plug n socket, then the speaker and decoder go in the tender.

[Buddy815]

Thanks for your response, the loco works perfect in DC mode, since I posted, I did a dig around and I had forgotten about a decoder I had laying around, it is the Black 5 TTS sound decoder, I popped that in there, and the loco was fine, it works without and issue, well I hope this is a lesson for someone else that is living in the US, may want to skip past any decoders for Hornby locos if you are looking at a Digitrax decoder. It's a pity as they are so easy to locate over here. Guess we need to look at an ESU decoder or look to ship an R8249 over here.

[Fishmanoz]

While I agree with Paul that it is best to do a stall current test to prove the loco doesn’t overload the decoder, this loco appears to have a modern 5-pole skew wound motor and therefore likely to only draw max 300mA.

Minimum decoder current specs are usually 500mA or more so seems unlikely it would overload if the loco and decoder are not faulty. That seems to be confirmed by its working with the TTS decoder too.

I’d be returning those decoders under warranty if I were you.

[96RAF]

Just as a belt and braces check you may want to lift the socket and check underneath that there is no solder tracking between the pins traces. You can eyeball this with a magnifier or use a multimeter set on Ohms to ensure there is no continuity where there shouldn’t be.

[Fishmanoz]

Rob, works with a TTS so would seem socket is ok?

[96RAF]

I was thinking as it was a steam loco the inner 4 pins wouldn’t be connected from the socket to the loco, but could be solder tracked to short the decoder.

[Bulleidboy]

I have used TCS DP2X-UK decoders in many of my Hornby Loco's and they have worked well. Many of the decoders were bought while holidaying in Florida - so readily available in the US. The particular decoder mentioned, is a plug and play - no harness - just plugs directly into the 8-pin socket.

[Buddy815]

Apologies for not getting back until now with an update, I purchased a lokpilot decoder yesterday and I only got around to installing it now and running for a few minutes and the loco seemed fine and again smoke, I paid more attention this time and the motor is the culprit, guess I need a new motor for this. Decoders are not to waste anyway, I have a few more that need a decoder anyway. I did like to read the comments, now to source a replacement motor. I really like this loco, and I want it working.

Seems there is an issue picking up a motor, anyone have a replacement part number that should work as a good replacement?

[Fishmanoz]

The part number for the motor is in the service sheet.

[Buddy815]

Hi Fishmanoz,

I checked the service sheet for the part number but it seems to be a difficult one to locate, it is a X9108.

Still looking....

Does anyone think that this would work as a valid replacement for X9108? I can get a X7011 and it is a 5 pole also.

[Going Spare]

Contact Lendons of Cardiff - their website appears to suggest X7011 is a replacement for X9108.

[P-Henny]

Just out of curiosity since you are now suspecting the motor. Did you do the 'stall test' I suggested and if so, what current did you get?

[Buddy815]

I did connect a meter to the loco, DC mode and it came in at 0.4A but the loco would not move, so I removed the meter and just wanted to see would the loco move with the DC controller and it does. The motor for sure looks like it is done. I ordered the X9108 as suggested already, thanks for all the assistance with this, soon as I get the motor delivered and installed, I hope I can finally run this loco.

[ColinB]

I couldn't find which loco this is anywhere in the text but it is probably me missing it. I have no end of issues with decoders not doing what they are supposed to, I read the specification mainly the current limit, but still quite often I get issues. That is why I mainly standardised on Zimo ones, because they do what they say on the packet. Surprisingly Hornby ones work ok as long as you don't exceed the current limit. I don't know if this loco has a capacitor across its motor, but these can give issues. On one Duchess the TTS decoder kept dropping sound, in the end replaced the decoder with a Zimo sound and it solved the issue. The only thing I could think is that there is an interaction between the pulse width modulation used by the decoder and the motor. I cannot explain why, I spent a whole day with smoothing capacitors and doing tests. Do you use that same brand in any other locos? I don't know if they sell them in the US but try a LaisDCC only for the fact that they are very cheap so if they blow up you haven't lost a lot and surprisingly given their bad press, work a lot better than many of the known brands I have tried.

[Buddy815]

Off the top of my head, I think I put a decoder in an US Ahearn loco and I think it was fine, at first I thought was there an issue with Hornby locos and digitrax but as this lesson has thought me, the loco motor is the issue. I was wondering why when I did the stall test as to the loco not moving at all? That showed an issue with the motor, I did find it strange I had no issues in DC mode but I also did not have the loco pull any train as I do not have the track for this as my layout is DCC. I only have a long straight for DC testing as I use a rolling road to run locos in. Disappointed in this loco having an issue with a motor as it may have had it all along since I brought it in 2008 but not trying to get it on my layout until now.

Even though the Ahearn loco has a direct plug in with a 9 pin decoder, you can get a harness to connect to an 8 pin socket like what Hornby had up to recently.

[Fishmanoz]

Colin, maybe if you read the topic title you might get a clue as to which loco?

Edit - apologies if my wording was a little direct but I think you’ve missed that the topic heading contains the loco type - R2227.

[ColinB]

Now look Fishmanoz if I had said that about you I would be in danger of violating the rules, so please leave it out.

Now this is the text on the subject

"I have one of these locos, purchased from new and finally I would like to convert it to DCC. I live in the US so I was trying decoders over here, so Hornby decoders are not easily available, I got 2 Digitrax decoders and both are 8 pin and when I install them, there is a small hint of smoke from the loco. It is perfect in DC mode, there is nothing from the motor, it only happens when I connect a DCC decoder to the loco. I am reaching out to see if anyone has one of these locos and if so, does it work with any other decoder other than Hornby? I am trying to avoid if possible getting one shipped from the UK. If I have to get one, I just have to get one. I could look at converting to DCC sound if anyone has advice or an quick how to as I assume I would have to wire to the tender for the speaker."

So where does it mention loco type, it mentions using a Black 5 TTS in the subsequent text and as I said in my response in the first line, if you would care to read it again, that I might have missed the loco type. Unlike many people on this site I have used very many decoders when I started some were good some were not very good. The ones I found were the best were Zimo, LaisDCC (surprisingly) and Hornby (if you were careful with them), so I thought that knowledge would be useful. I was trying to work out what motor they were using as you probably know it makes a huge difference to decoder choice.

If you also read my response properly I was trying to help the guy out. To be quite honest I am beginning to tire of this site and the whole Model Railway community, I think a previous response by another member ion another subject s probably true. Fortunately there are some good guys on this site "Going Spare" being a prime example giving useful advice.

Now do I get an apology?

[Brew Man]

Hi Colin, is it not the R2227, (8F) mentioned in the thread title? Sorry for butting in.

[ColinB]

Thanks Brewman I just assumed that was the decoder he was referring to, I should have checked. I did say I might have missed it, I just assumed he would have said it was an 8F. That one shouldn't be an issue standard motor, any proper 8 pin decoder should work. I wish I knew why some decoders do exactly what he is describing, it has happened to me a lot of times.

[Buddy815]

Hi

As an update I did get a replacement motor for the loco and it is running without any issues. Looks like all is good.

Thanks for all the replies I appreciate it.

[96RAF]

Thanks for the feedback buddy, glad all is OK now.

Please note I amended your post title to clarify the question.