David-365725 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I’ve just purchase the new Lord President. This is a superb looking loco but the front pony truck jumps the tracks on points. This doesn’t happen at low or very high speeds but does frequently happen at a realistic running speed.I had a similar problem with the Cock of the North but this doesn’t seem to be as bad.Does anyone have a suggested remedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 On my Railroad one I added a bit of extra weight to the front bogie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Hi David and welcome to the forum.There are several factors involved here.Are the points level, well mounted, in good condition and have no major gauge variations? (Some have inserted an extra pin in the middle of points to ensure they remain flat.)Have you checked the 'B2B' - back-to-back? Distance between the backs of the flanges. This is typically 14.3-14.5mm. Less or more can cause derailing issues.Does the pony swing freely, is not catching during movement / rotation - like on curves / points?Keeping the locomotive perfectly level with the track, when lifting off the rails by hand, is there any slight 'slack' and the pony remains a little longer (preferred) or is clear the same moment as the driving wheels? A little adjustment might be required here if possible, but don't remove weight off the drivers.Some thoughts.Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I owe this guy a huge debt of gratitude. When mine arrived I tested it on my metre length of test track on DC then fitted a Zimo sound decoder, thought no more of it as all the new locos I have bought have behaved themselves and I have been busy fixing my house. Anyway after reading this post I thought I would test my one out, surprise surprise it derails in exactly the same places the Railroad did. Yes my track is not entirely level but the new build Evening Star has no issues and it has the same type of front bogie. So it looks like on my brand new loco I am going to have to add a weight to the front bogie. Obviously Hornby never tested it on a Peco double slip but then why would they, they don't make them. Sad other than that, it is a nice loco. I did a quick check it is the same as the Railroad one it doesn't have a spring or any weight. As Sam says, yes my layout has issues but all my other locos run fine on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I have taken the front bogie off and it does have a bit of a spring. Comparing it with the one on Evening Star I think it might be something the do with travel, there is twice as much travel on the Evening Star. I will keep you posted as to how I fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I think occasionally the spring on the bogie gets stuck against the chassis as it turns. I taped my one up with thin tape and the derailing disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 Is it possible this spring is retained with a screw, and has become misaligned?Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 No, it is part of the bogie. I got fed up with it last night. My track is not perfect so that is a lot of the issue. I did manage to get it to work reliable by loosening the bogie screw so the bogie hung down a lot more. I don't know what thread they used to hold the bogie on, but it is smaller than M2 so none of my longer stepped bolts fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-365725 Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 Thanks for all the suggestions. My track is Peco code 100 with Peco points. The track isn’t perfect but all my other locos manage to stay on the track. I have a mixture of Hornby and Bachman locos. I’ll keep fiddling with the pony truck but I would have expected better from the latest model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Its a sad state of affairs, when these expensive new locos, play up. interesting about adding weight. I run a lot of Dublo 3 rail locos, which are considerably heavier, and never have any such problems. Given that the track is very old, in my case, it must be their weight/ build quality, that keeps them on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 David D3 does not state whether his Peco trackage is Setrack or Streamline. The tolerances through Peco Streamline pointwork used to be - and probably still are - finer than with Hornby's track and Hornby no doubt engineer their loco's principally with their own track in mind so trial & error adjustments to the back-to-back setting on the pony truck wheels may help alongside a little more weight (14.2mm comes to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-365725 Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 Hi GS,the curves are set track with the points being streamline. Interestingly there are fewer issues when I run the loco on the inner track (2nd radius). It’s the outer track that causes the majority of derailments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Please see my post, with earlier suggestions - one or more will cover that.Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 With mine it is the 2 way double slip that does it. I had quite a bit of success when I loosened off the screw holding it on. I must admit I have given up for the moment. The issue is probably not altogether Hornby's fault. The model has pretty large wheels as it copies the prototype with four pairs in line, very close together, that seems to be one of issues going round bends. I compared it with my Evening Star the latest type but its wheels are smaller and the unflanged wheel in the middle as per prototype helps a lot. I need to sort that bit of my railway out so I will try and level it out and see if it improves things. I have checked all the things atom3624 has suggested but I normally do that if a loco has issues. I might try black tacking a small weight to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 For any others having derailing P2s, you might want to watch this youtube clip: Even a talented modeller like Tony Wright, whose track is laid by another experienced modeller and who has made countless puperb running kit locos in his time, had problems with the front pony truck derailing on his layout Little Bytham. It seems that the solution is to remove the pony truck and bend the two copper springing strips slightly further so that they push the pony down onto the track more strongly.As many modellers demand finer, closer to scale appearance these days, wheel standards have become finer, which means there is less margin for error in both manufacturing tolerance and track laying. A slight variation in the springing of a >£200 model can make all the difference between a perfect runner and a derailing dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Interesting and good spot.I'd be mindful of each time you increase the springing / relative weight on the pony, you take weight off the drivers - less hauling capacity.Need to find the minimum required.Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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