Reflections on HMDCC after 6 months

[Pendragon Sailing]

Given that we’re now about 6 months since the launch (on iOS) of HMDCC, I thought it might be a good time to reflect on my own experiences to date with this new, and in my opinion, exciting new development in our hobby.

As someone who has come back to railway modelling after a break of well over 30 years, my return happily coincided with HMDCC’s launch. After taking some time to research the various control options I resolved to go down the DCC route (all new to me), and adopting HMDCC seemed to be a good option to choose. I am now a complete convert to both DCC and to HMDCC in particular and have invested heavily in both.

Notwithstanding some of the well documented issues highlighted by this forum, all of which I’d describe as ‘teething problems’ typically experienced at the launch of any new technology, I’d say that my own experience has been largely very positive.

Yes, there was a learning curve on how the App should and could be used. Yes, there were some issues downloading sound profiles and (perhaps) some failed decoders too (all promptly dealt with by Hornby), BUT on the whole, once I’d read the manual (vital reading imo) and worked out how to do things, using the system has become progressivly easy and intuitive.

As part of my voyage of discovery, I have also tried out other decoders (both sound and non-sound) from the main manufacturers (ESU, Gaugemaster, Lais, DCC Concepts, Zimo, et al) and while they all have their qualities (and foibles), the CV programming processes (using programming tracks or POM modes) all raise their own issues and problems it seems to me.

HMDCC’s user-friendly, and one might say intuitive graphic interface, facilitates in particular, the very easy setting of CVs and Functions, while at the same time giving access to a growing number of sound profiles that can be changed any number of times. What’s not to like in such a system?

There will always be some folk out there that, for many reasons, struggle with or don’t like HMDCC or simply just don’t want to spend the time understanding its technology, which is of course fine…..each to their own. But I for one am a firm convert to its easy-to-use interface and wireless operating system. I now have 22 locos running successfully on HMDCC decoders and with the exception of some Heljan locos (apparently notorious amperage eaters!), all are running beautifully.

What do others out there think? What has been your experience?

[96RAF]

I fully agree with the Dragon, although I am a tad biased having been in at early doors in the project.

I find it so intuitive that it irks me no end when folk say they are having problems. I cannot understand why they are still fumbling around when almost all problems have been addressed. The thing just gets better and better day by day.

As an example of simple CV handling, I fitted over-bright white/red LEDs to my Deltic and they have bothered me for ages whilst it was a TTS loco, but in a couple of minutes I turned the front and rear brightness down bit by bit on its new TXS decoder until I was happy with it. Altering other CVs is just as easy as the purpose of the CV is clearly stated and the allowable values presented in a simple to understand and easy to amend format.

@steve - I run TGG automation. Superb. If you like RM then TGG is RM with icing on the top.

[Fishmanoz]

My experience of HM | DCC, while limited, has been all positive so far and definitely my preferred control method for a hobby re-entry with TT:120.

Then I’ve started with a good understanding of DCC, which I think helps, and some Railmaster experience too. I’m about to take another step up the more tech ladder using TGG as well.

I do share some of Rob's frustrations with some who are taking longer to get their head around the technology than others but I try to be patient and trust that the penny will drop at some stage. All part of the fun of forums.

Just on TGG, which an expanding group of users knows is a private software development by forum member Stingray, together with some excellent bespoke supporting hardware for LD sensor interfacing: I can see a need for a slightly more commercial approach to wider distribution, something that’s yet to be addressed adequately by the group.

[96RAF]

RAF I’ve entered TGG automation into the search engine and can’t really find anything. 🤣

 

 

As Fishy has said it is currently a closed group project, hence any Google search will only bring up refs to it on forums, and not lead to any commercial outlet or even an info site.

If you are a keen and reasonably proficient user of RM then TGG is a natural follow on but if you think it will miraculously automate a layout (as many do) then like JMRI, Rocrail, iTrain, etc it will but it is a fairly steep learning curve.

The reason for the closed group being Ray did not want to contend with a larger membership who likely would try it out and fall by the wayside. Membership has been actively involved in the on-going development, including again as Fishy notes, the supporting hardware for the loco detection side.

[Fishmanoz]

Sometimes it’s Rallymat but in this context it’s Railmaster.

[WilliamDavid]

All I can say is that I am bored with it now, but in a good way.

Everything works as it should and no problems to solve.

I now have to play trains, and have never been good at that.

Just needs more sound profiles to be perfect.

[Rallymatt]

I heard Fishy mention my name 😁

Having some experience with DCC in my last short lived return to the hobby about 15 years ago, I liked the idea of some of the possibilities but all the black magic, secret codes and fake experts did leave me cold. HM DCC is what I believe DCC was always intended to be and so much more. If people would read the manual, they could go from a total novice on DCC to understanding a wealth of features and benefits as well as answering their own questions, I rate it as one of the best DCC guides every written! I have only ever had the problematic sound file upload from the early days but the belt and braces option sorted that and now it’s a breeze. I did have an unusual glitch with one decoder stealing the identity of another so two locos responded but the absolutely fantastic part of the system is that almost any issue is user fixable via the app with the most basic inputs. You can’t break it and you can always reset it to factory. The sounds and running profiles all for free are just the cherries on the top. Smaller next Gen decoders will undoubtedly position HM DCC as the Go To DCC system and there is so much more to come 😁

[Fishmanoz]

I mentioned it only to “eliminate you from our inquiries” RM.

[SteveM6]

Can we get back on topic please?

[Fishmanoz]

To my knowledge no, only via conventional DCC track power and signals. They work in conjunction with standard DCC controllers I believe.

Others will know if any exceptions.

[96RAF]

I have cleaned the thread up a bit. If others want to delete their own posts or simply amend them in any way please go for it.

[Ighten 1707822464]

I pretty much agree with all that's been said. The system is intuitive, easy to use and for me other than one badly soldered 8 pin chip working faultlessly.

I do have caveats and BUTS though. My initial thoughts on the system when announced were similar to a well known you tuber (no - not the carpet man): IE is this the answer to my DCC problems. I had been using digitrax on the main layout and mainly zimo sound chips and I think I dreamt this eventually would replace everything with a much simpler Bluetooth system.

The problem is we seem to be still millions of miles from that and whilst it is still early days if anything we seem to hear less and less about planned new profiles for the back catalogue or chips that fit smaller engines, things that in my opinion are desperately needed if this is to be a huge success.

As it is I now have two DCC systems only one of which is capable of guaranteeing full sound compatibility over my collection and layouts, and at the moment unfortunately it's the other one.

[LTSR_NSE]

In my opinion hopes of an emerging technology (only available in proprietary forms from a couple of manufacturers) competing with & providing more features than, an industry established standard are too wildly optimistic.

However if thought of as an innovation that provides a useful additional feature on top of the industry standard - then it obviously deserves to be successful.

Where it absolutely wins, is for those who have never invested in DCC, (either put off by costs of controller & multiple loco decoders, or the need for potentially complex wiring, or simply been content with what they are used too) who can now purchase a single decoder and try the system out.

Obviously if the decoders were capable of protecting themselves to enable all/any analogue controller as a power source - that would be perfection. However considering the size of the decoders, seeking this perfection seems understandably unreasonable!

[ColinB]

I would agree with Ighten, I have tried the HM7000 system on my phone. After a long wait to get it to work on my Android phone I wouldn't say I was blown away by it, it reminder me a lot of Railmaster. There again I have a DigiKeijs system which I am very happy with, the only disadvantage is I have not found a way to name the locos yet, whereas the HM7000 does let me do it. I like a multiwindows environment or the equivalent in a PAD system where each loco has its own windows with setups and then another one for accessories so it is easy to jump between apps.

Hornby lost the initiative by first messing up with the Android App and even getting the software app wrong and then there was the DC power supply issues. The download of sound files is great but it takes too long (about 20 to 30 minutes on my phone), anything longer than a few minutes is asking for issues especially if WiFi is not that good. I used to write reprogramming apps and anything longer than 5 minutes to reprogram and I used to get very worried. I must admit I would rather pay the extra money and get a Zimo or LokSound system, I have very many TTS units because they were a really cheap way of adding sound. Yes, they are not that reliable but the ones of late seem a lot better. A HM7000 sounds a bit better but still not as good as a Zimo and doesn't have the extra added functions.

I think Hornby would have been better off improving the DCC systems that they already had, the Elite is brilliant for programming decoders, not so good for running locos though, it might have been better to upgrade the hardware and improve the multitrain running capability, possibly put a wireless interface on it.

They are my thoughts, when I bought my latest P2 I did think about a HM7000 but then the Zimo is better product and surprisingly runs much better with an intermittent DCC signal than the HM7000, so that is what I bought.

[SteveM6]

When Hornby announced the HM7K system back in January, I took the time to question RAF96 extensively on another forum. From his replies (thanks Rob) I was able to gain a reasonable understanding of what Hornby were trying to achieve and how the system would work when it was released into the wild. It seemed that it would address many of the shortcomings with 'regular' DCC I had flagged across the forums over the last couple of years following my switch to DCC around 5/6 years ago. Pre-orders of decoders and an approved power supply and adapter were placed immediately.

I kept abreast of developments via the Hornby Forum and their videos (and continued to pester Rob for details). In some way this may have prompted Hornby to invite me to be a small part of the Beta test team.

Like many, I was disappointed to learn that my clunky old iPad would not be up to the job and that I would need to wait for the android version. However this did give me the opportunity to keep up to speed with some of the teething problems encountered with the first app version for iOS. Being part of the test team (even though at that stage all I could run was the default sounds on DCC - that was the extent of my early test efforts) did give me a perfect spectator's view of how quickly the development team were able to issue fixes as bugs were uncovered - I think the record was less than an hour from first reporting to a fix being issued.

When android launched, I had already read the manual and had learnt from the Forum of the importance of strong wifi, uninterrupted power to the decoder from approved PSUs to avoid disruption of Bluetooth, plus the usual DCC tricks of clean track etc.

I set up a short length of track for programming wired to an approved HM7K PSU and had obtained a secondhand Elite to power the layout and allow the use of the dongle for the bulk of my fleet. I also invested in a cheap android tablet to be a dedicated HM7K controller to avoid interruptions from incoming emails etc on my phone - the larger screen was a bonus for my fat fingers. My layout is in the shed and my existing wifi router was not able to push the signal that far so I added a decent set of signal boosters to avoid the wifi issues that early users encountered.

Now this was very much a belt and braces approach, but guess what, it worked - first time. In fact I have only had one sound profile fail and that was definitely down to operator error, not any fault within the HM7K system.

Thats not to say I've not encountered challenges along the way - all of which have been reported back to Hornby. In fact the list of improvements to the system that will shortly be released addresses all but one of those challenges. Those improvements that Rob has already mentioned elsewhere were released to the test team to try and break earlier today. From my perspective only one issue remains outstanding and although George Waller describes the fix as 'tricky', I know it is being addressed.

What has been apparent however is that so many of the issues flagged on the forum are of the operator's making either by not reading and understanding the instructions, or by using unapproved hardware or by asking the decoders to do things that they were never designed to do.

For me the system is an absolute winner, and once the legwork has been put in to understand what it can and can't do, faultless in operation.

Thank you Hornby for answering my wishes for such a versatile and user friendly system.

[Rallymatt]

Not sure what others are doing but I can drop a sound and running profile into an HM DCC decoder in about 9 minutes. I can run an auto calibrate on main track in a couple of clicks, my Dynamis Ultra can’t cope with that idea at all! Via a phone I can hand control of a loco to another operator and use my DCC command station. I found by reading the instructions, it was easy to get started (literally seconds) and any CV value changes are as easy as falling off a log.

[ColinB]

All I can say Rallymatt is you are very lucy but there again there could be a difference in which sound file you load. Mine was definitely 25 minutes plus because I was amazed it took that long. For those that don't know a reprogramming app is a piece of software that basically reprograms the microprocessor with some different software, your phone does it all the time (well mine does). Now I don't know whether Hornby just wipes the sound file data and reprograms only the sound file or reprograms the whole software. Now it can't be the WiFi because mine is supposed to be the BT latest and greatest but I have upgraded lately so I could give it another try. From what I remember the transfer of file to the phone from website was quite quick, it seemed the bluetooth programming took the time, perhaps it is just one of those things.

I suppose I come at this from a different background, coming from an electronic comms background (RS232, CAN etc) I spent half my life trying to understand software register maps as to how to get a comms system to work so I don't have any real issues with DCC other than it is incredibly easy to blow up the decoders. The only issue I do have is the DCC controllers where I think that the Suppliers haven't made the best of what they have available. The Elite does a really good job of taking a lot of the reprogramming detail away but they could improve the running mode as I said before and the entry mode by pushing the rotary switch is terrible. Why go and invent something new when something already exists perhaps it would have been easier to have made the equivalent big thick manual for DCC. Then we have the fact that many of us have many different makes of loco where this system doesn't always fit.

If you like it stick with it, for people like me I am quite happy with DCC and a decent laptop system to control it. Also DCC is multi manufacturer standard so is more likely to last the test of time.

[LTSR_NSE]

@ColinB - I agree that your issues sound nothing to do with WiFi (or HM7000 itself for that matter) and everything to do with a suspect/dodgy Bluetooth connection.

With my iPhone 7 (hardly cutting edge technology) even the class 73 (largest most complicated profile) doesn’t take anything like 25+ mins to install - except when I deliberately tax the Bluetooth connection to its very limit (by putting distance & walls between phone & decoder).

My experiences of installing & testing profiles, sounds, movements etc. closely match others who’ve found it intuitive, effortless & a breath of fresh air compared with lots of products (that require several patches/revisions before they are even functional/stable - let alone easy to use!)

[Ighten 1707822464]

Just to add to my post I have never had a loco loose communication nor have I had an issue with long download times or profiles that simply won't stick. Nor have I had power issues.

My issue is that at the moment, quite simply it just doesn't seem to serve as a replacement for any other DCC system as it's unusable not only in a lot of other manufacturers DCC ready engines but also many Hornby current and back catalogue stock. I may as well just stick to a loksound or zimo with there added advantages; though I will miss the use of the instant CV writing.. hornbys big plus.

I will come back to it when and if it becomes fit for purpose IE a DCC sound system fit for all trains at the moment it's too much a "we may release that profile one day or make smaller chips in the distant future".

[ColinB]

It may be that my extreme download times is due to the fact I am using Android rather than Iphone, The App was originally written for Iphone so that is probably the reason, my friend did say the architecture in an Iphone is easier to write software for. DCC offers the option of reprogramming it is just no manufacturer has implemented it, if I remember from my Zimo documentation it is one of the features. Currently there still is a shortage of integrated circuits so who knows what the future holds when a better supply becomes available. With TTS the devices on discount were amazingly cheap, so I could tolerate that they weren't as good as a Zimo or Loksound, the HM7000 with the Powerpack which it seems to need for reliable running, the choice is not so easy.

[96RAF]

I have uploaded dozens and dozens of sound profiles during testing and as Steve said there have been glitches along the way, but now it is so routine I don’t even bother putting a loco on my dedicated track. It stays on the layout and is programmed from wherever it is located. That may be against best advice, but it is likely to be common practice for many folk at home.

At present the Team is reloading and checking out all the current profiles to prove the improvements mentioned have incorporated correctly, plus there are those new profiles awaiting clearance to release into the live apps. It may appear that things are standing still but development continues apace.

All this routine updating has been in parallel with development of the Turbomotive profile which is very special as it replicates the restrictive performance of the separate fwd and rev turbines of the prototype; as well as working the profile for the wet steam ASU locos.

I believe Hornby is looking for a one-armed wallpaper hanger to help out in the sound department as they are so busy.

[Ighten 1707822464]

It may be that my extreme download times is due to the fact I am using Android rather than Iphone

 

 

Just to add to my add :) I'm also on Android... no problems at all in the download times.

[Fishmanoz]

Sure your not using dial-up Colin, that might affect download speed, Android or no.

But seriously, your data plan, wifi quality and hardware more likely the culprit rather than your OS.

[SteveM6]

In all the discussion and speculation since the launch, the questions regarding download times has already been answered - many times.

The profiles are transferred to the app very quickly via a reliable and steady WiFi signal.

The app then downloads said profile to the decoder via Bluetooth. This final transfer was deliberately slowed down to improve reliability with the majority of users now reporting first time success.

And I would rather have a successful 30 minute process over multiple fast attempts with no guarantee that they would work.

[96RAF]

I am finding 10 to 20 minutes is typical with the odd longer one, but nothing over 30 minutes.

Using iOS on iPad and Android on 2 phones seems to give similar install times.

Maybe Colin is using contract or PAYG data to download the file to his phone rather than WiFi thru’ a home router.