Polishing rails. Is it worth it?

[Peachy]

Hello gang & Happy New Year.🥳

I’m not sure if this is something discussed before, but in my search to try to get the best connectivity that I can for HM7000 Bluetooth I’ve had a go at polishing my rails with a polish that has oxidation and tarnish inhibitors. I did the test over 3 months and am very happy with the results so far.

So I’m just asking has anyone else tried something like this?

[Hobby11]

The only thing I'd be wary about is it's long term effects of the stock and track, i.e. if it'd have a detrimental effect on the wheels/gears, plastic parts of the track etc.. I'm no chemist but I do know someone that is so have asked them what they think.

I'm also a bit wary about using any metal polish on rails after a horrendous experience on someone else's layout at Warley this year. Someone had told him to use metal polish on his N gauge layout, and he'd bought and applied some onto the layout before we started the Saturday, it wasn't Brasso but was something similar. The layout wouldn't work right at all and in the end, in desperation, I bought some IPA off Squires and cleaned the whole layout, removing, after quite a few applications, all of the polish and going back to a clean rail. No issues after that.

I'm not saying this would be the same, but you can see why I'm wary!

[Simon-372339]

Nickel silver...preferred for the track in electric model railway layouts, as its oxide is conductive...

Every time you polish you are scratching the rail surface reducing contact area.

A more effective solution may be cleaning with IPA then wiping over with a cloth damped with electrolube. Though the electrolube may increase wheelspin.

[Peachy]

I'm also a bit wary about using any metal polish on rails after a horrendous experience on someone else's layout at Warley this year. Someone had told him to use metal polish on his N gauge layout, and he'd bought and applied some onto the layout before we started the Saturday, it wasn't Brasso but was something similar. The layout wouldn't work right at all and in the end, in desperation, I bought some IPA off Squires and cleaned the whole layout, removing, after quite a few applications, all of the polish and going back to a clean rail. No issues after that.

 

 

Yes that’s exactly the sort of thing I was worried about, hence the three month test.

I’ve since polished my entire layout and I must say it’s never worked as well, I guess it’s very much down to what product is used. As for MAAS I’ve been using it for years in restoration projects and couldn’t praise it higher. Just a shame the small tubes all seem to be out of stock in the UK atm

[HST Mainline]

You are not supposed to use chemistry to keep the track clean, so leave it as is. It will keep you life simpler and you have plenty of connectivity already.

There is no need to do anything else than use the track rubber to keep the track clean.

I have been using the track rubber for ages and never had a problem (with either DCC or HM7000).

[Hobby11]

I've asked him, will get back when I have a reply!

[Peachy]

A more effective solution may be cleaning with IPA then wiping over with a cloth damped with electrolube.

Yeah that was my go to product, but cleaning the entire layout every single time I wanted to operate HM7000 fitted locos was becoming a real bore…

What I’m hoping is that with my experience of MAAS this hopefully will only be a very occasional job, with just the odd vacuum or dusting off of the rails as required.

 

 

[Peachy]

You are not supposed to use chemistry to keep the track clean, so leave it as is. It will keep you life simpler and you have plenty of connectivity already.

There is no need to do anything else than use the track rubber to keep the track clean.

I have been using the track rubber for ages and never had a problem (with either DCC or HM7000).

 

 

Well I’m very pleased for you, truly. (I promise I’m not being sarcastic) But unfortunately my experience is exactly the opposite.

[Justin-376583]

The only thing I'd be wary about is it's long term effects of the stock and track, i.e. if it'd have a detrimental effect on the wheels/gears, plastic parts of the track etc.. I'm no chemist but I do know someone that is so have asked them what they think.

I'm also a bit wary about using any metal polish on rails after a horrendous experience on someone else's layout at Warley this year. Someone had told him to use metal polish on his N gauge layout, and he'd bought and applied some onto the layout before we started the Saturday, it wasn't Brasso but was something similar. The layout wouldn't work right at all and in the end, in desperation, I bought some IPA off Squires and cleaned the whole layout, removing, after quite a few applications, all of the polish and going back to a clean rail. No issues after that.

I'm not saying this would be the same, but you can see why I'm wary!

 

 

Could you find out what they applied? So everyone else can avoid it!

[Rallymatt]

I tried Inox MX3 and that does work extremely well but it will ruin traction tyres. I did test to prove this.

Now I find small amount of IPA on lint free cloth over a small wooden block works just as well, once every couple of months and sometimes just a wipe along with a balsa block. I may give a light pass with a Peco track rubber if I have been doing scenic stuff and something gets on the rails.

Pleased to hear you are making progress Peachy, absolute electric stability seems critical on the HM DCC, I wonder if the later profiles have a wider tolerance to peaks and troughs in basic power supply?

[Justin-376583]

Nickel silver...preferred for the track in electric model railway layouts, as its oxide is conductive...

Every time you polish you are scratching the rail surface reducing contact area.

A more effective solution may be cleaning with IPA then wiping over with a cloth damped with electrolube.

 

 

I can appreciate that scratching the surface with a course abrasive would reduce contact area and create pockets for dirt to adhere to - thus reducing conductivity.

But surely a polish that leaves a very shiny surface has removed scratches. I am sure I saw a recommendation that following use of an abrasive track rubber (eg removing dried paint) the rails could be restored to pristine condition by rubbing with progressively finer sand paper (4000, 8000...)

 

 

I am going to try an electro lube though (DeoxIT) in future. Though I'll watch how Peachy's metal polish experiment goes with interest.

[Simon-372339]

... a 70:30 IPA:H2O may actually clean better than 100% IPA...just a thought

[Peachy]

Pleased to hear you are making progress Peachy, absolute electric stability seems critical on the HM DCC, I wonder if the later profiles have a wider tolerance to peaks and troughs in basic power supply?

 

 

Cheers, I’m just trying to investigate other avenues rather than just sticking with the tried and tested.

And yes, this is purely because of issues I’ve had with the HM7000 Bluetooth system, fingers crossed the profiles will resolve some of these issues.

BTW. My choice of polish wasn’t random, it’s a product I’ve used for years on vintage cycles and I’ve cleaned connective surfaces such as in vintage dynamos and lights with no ill effects.

[Rallymatt]

Just to add, TT:120 track is (edit, Nickel Silver not Nickel plated) so any tarnishing (which is oxidation) is completely irrelevant at model railway voltages (well in excess of 10v) as the Oxide itself is an excellent conductor. So when the Peco rail goes that yellow colour, don’t panic, it’s the contamination from oil, dust etc that causes the problems.

PS; you are quite welcome to come and clean my bikes… at moment getting a bit bored with washing my gravel bike off after every ride! Tin foil is an excellent chrome restorer too 👍

[Peachy]

😛🚵‍♂️

[Hobby11]

This is the reply to my question about it, his wife, BTW is a senior conservationist at a very large museum:

"I’ve used that stuff myself, but only to polish Silver and other metals and never to clean track! It’s a bit like ‘Autosol’ metal polish in consistency and action, and they are much the same as Brasso/Silvio polishes. 

I’d keep any metal polish well away from track on a layout. As you found at Warley if it isn’t fully removed it will play havoc with electrical pick up, and any residue that ends up in the ballast, between & around check rails, etc will look awful (at best it will be a greyish sludge if there is a lot of tarnish in it though more likely is a pinkish white colour smeared around the track). 

If someone does use it they will need to clean the track again with something more ‘usual’ like meths or isopropyl alcohol (IPA), and in my view (with the Chemist’s hat on!) why bother with the metal polish -which will only muck things up and add something that is non-conductive to the rails - when meths/ IPA will do what is needed - remove the muck that interrupts conductivity between the wheel and rail. 

As you say, ultimately these types of polish are abrasive pastes, so if they did get onto the working parts of the loco - both into any gearing and any motion - they will cause additional wear and premature failure (and probably invalidate any manufacturer warranty). Not only that but you’ll also get the same electrical issues between wheels and pick ups as you will between wheel and rail. 

Even if they insist on using metal polish my wife tells me that the best Conservation practice with using metal polish is to remove any polish residues with a solvent (so we are back to meths / IPA again!). 

Hope that helps and feel free to pass that on."

So there you have it, after my experience at Warley I wouldn't use such a thing but that's purely my own opinion.

[david_watts1]

I don't know if the stuff is any good or not, but at that price, I'll stick to IPA or Meths / track rubber and elbow grease. Great video though.

[Skelton Junction]

I’ve found these https://www.noch.com/track-cleaners/60157/ soaked with some ipa do a satisfactory job.

[Hobby11]

Wrong gauge, though! There's also N ones but I don't know of any 12mm gauge versions. I use meths or IPA, a stick has a piece of cameo leather pinned to the end and then soaked in either liquid and drawn along the track. Old fashioned but works.

[Skelton Junction]

Agreed Hobby, doesn’t suit tt120 axles but is happily towed around attached to an original tt tanker wagon where the axle space is a bit wider and accommodates this product.

[Too Tall]

There are TT120 ones, I have some :)

Noch 60159 Gauge TT Track Cleaners, five pieces modellbahnshop-lippe.com

[Hobby11]

Thanks for that, will have to try it, I'll have to check if they have 9mm as well as one of my layouts has some hard to clean tunnels!

Rallymatt I though the rail was solid nickel silver, not just coated? I remember the Triang Super4 track where the steel rail was coated with something which wore off and it then just rusted!

[Peachy]

Hi Hobby, thanks for the reply, but…..

has anyone actually watched the video? Where none listed potential problems occurred🤷🏻‍♂️

Couple of points.

1. In my experience of resorting vintage & retro bicycles (I’m the Claud Butler Marquee expert for the Vintage Cycling Club) MAAS is nothing like Brasso or Solvite. They’re like chalk & cheese.
2. I’m not asking if it works because I’ve done it & it does.
3. watch the video
4. The point of my post I guess primarily was to see anyone else had tried it. And whether anyone could recommend an alternative (especially a cheaper version, as the smaller tubes don’t seem to be available atm)
5. ive now polished an entire layout with no mess or muck or staining of ballast or sleepers and I’ve certainly not left anything behind that could be picked up by a locos wheels.

Anyway, signing off now as it’s time to get ready for New Years.

see you next year.

 

 

[Hobby11]

Peachy, that's a bit unfair, you asked for opnions about using metal polish and you got my answer. I don't trust it, too many unanswered questions about how it will affect the track and stock in the longer term. Also I've seen first hand the effects of metal polish on a layout and it was very different to your experiences. I appreciate you don't like my answer because it doesn't agree with your experiences but such is life. You carry on using it but I won't. Its up to others to make their own minds.

[Rallymatt]

Hobby, yes you are absolutely right, the rail today is ‘Nickel Silver’ (note no silver involved) it’s an Alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel. The oxide of, is highly conductive and quite resilient … I had just been checking a reference on Nickel plated Copper being used in electrical applications and the bit about plating was still at front of my brain.. the internet is full of wormholes of interesting stuff!

Old rail use to be steel, some brass and even Nickel Plated Steel but certainly with Hornby and Peco these days it’s Nickel Silver.

I would certainly recommend the Balsa block, I hardly need to clean my track these days. Actually a lot cheaper than ‘chips’ too! 😁