Cobalt Digital with Elink and Railmaster

[AyrshireJambo]

Kiwi_Dee said:

bulleidboy said:

I have been watching this with interest, as I hope to fit Cobalt Digital's to my new layout. One thing that AyrshireJambo mentioned, but does not appear to have developed further, is that on the DCC

Website/instructions for the Cobalt, it says that with the Hornby Elite Railcom should be turned-off before programming the Cobalt. Has this been done by those trying to programme the motor? I do have one Cob/Dig., and will set up a test rig before the final

installation.there doesn't appear to be an option to disable railcom with the current version of Elite firmware. Looks to me as though this has been removed in a previous firmware version. I have tried with elite in both standard and classic modes without

success. I am also running railmaster and have tried via this also. I'm more than happy to try any other methods if anyone has any suggestions.

[AyrshireJambo]

As far as I am aware there is no facility in the Elink or railmaster to turn off Railcom.

 

I sent a message to Hornby support on the subject

, but if there last non response to a query is anything to go on, I will have a very long wait for an

 

answer.

 

Maybe some of the others interested on this thread could also raise the question to try and get some momentum into getting an answer from Hornby

[Rog RJ]

I think the last time the question was raised about turning off railcom, Hornby replied that railcom is turned off automatically when programming, there is no manual way of doing so. That was for the Elite but it may be different with the elink.

[Rog RJ]

Found the old thread about it. https://www.hornby.com/forums/hornby-forums/hornby-digital/4335/?page=1#post49171

 

Not quite as I remembered it.

[Fishmanoz]

Nothing can be adjusted in eLink except by using RM. The RM manual doesn't have any references to RailCom, so it is clearly not a feature that is manually adjustable.

 

There are many references to RailCom in the Elite manual. They all relate to

 

reading back from a decoder when the decoder is on the main, not programming, track and the Elite is in operate mode. Thee fault is clearly off and it is enabled automatically when a read back request is received from a decoder. RailCom must be enabled in

 

the decoder by CV 29 adjustment. Apart from programming on the main where you will be required to turn on and use Rsilcom, the Sapphire uses it in fuel simulation so it can be switched on in normal operation if you use fuel simulation. My assumption is that

 

once switched on, it will continue to be switched on at least while you remain in operate mode, and maybe until the Elite is switched off.

 

Given that eLink can run Sapphire fuel simulation, and program some features on the main, it must also switch

 

on RailCom to do this. But again I'd assume that the default from startup is off. Although it is possible it is always on in RM.

 

So if you want to program decoders with Rsilcom off, it would seem they should be done on first boot up, and on the programming

 

track, not on the main.

 

Anyone wanting to 100% confirm this should do so via RM Support and make sure you are specific about what system you have. HCC know nothing about this stuff so not much use contacting them. RM Support are far more responsive

 

anyway, at least on reply time, which is usually hours compared to HCC taking days.

[Fishmanoz]

Not thee fault, the default.

[Kiwi_Dee]

Ok here is what I have tried to date:

 

Programming as per Cobalt Digital instructions via my Elite…attempted multiple times and tried via several different accessory addresses

Tried the above but with the CD connected directly into the track outputs

 

on the Elite with nothing else connected

Change Elite to classic mode and turn off and back on and then attempt both of the above

Change Elite back to standard mode and repeat above

Attempt to program via the usual method i.e. connect to the programming

 

track

 

The 2nd night

This time I tried via Railmaster

Tried all of the different decoder type options and still no joy.

 

I have six of the Cobalt Digital and I have tried programming three of them in the standard way as per instructions with

 

the same result. I currently have one mounted which is working fantastically via temporary switch however the reason I have Railmaster is so that I can run point’s and locos via my PC. I do love my gadgets but sometimes technology can be so frustrating eh.

 

Cheers

[Fishmanoz]

Received from Richard Johnson at DCC Concepts in reply to a question on whether Elite can program digital Cobalt:

 

"Yes, they can be programmed with just about everything on the market, as can all NMRA compatible accessory decoders.

 

Again,

 

railcom needs to be turned off for the most reliable first time setup.... The manual isn't necessarily correct for railcom and the elite in current versions as far as we can see... I have been told that updated units have it turned on by default. The same

 

applies to ESU Updates, which turn it back on.

 

Setting the address is as per the manual attached - There is no "programming" as such at all... just a simple "listen and learn" procedure.

 

Put cobalt digital into learn mode, then, using the elites

 

own point changing procedure, act as if you are already changing a point at the address you wish it to be, then return cobalt digital to run mode."

 

That Elite might now have RailCom enabled by default is a little bit of a worry. However, if you look

 

at the Menu flow charts near the front of the v1.41 Manual, you will be able to find a reference to RailCom Enable/Disable. I've yet to get the chance to try it myself, but it would seem by following through this menu chart, you should get to the Enable/Disable

 

option and there be able to turn it off if on. And it will be interesting to see what the default actually is.

 

[Bulleidboy]

Hi - I'll be interested to see if this works - I found the reference you referred to in the Menu Flow chart, but I'm not yet in a position to try it. I have yet to upgrade my Elite to 1.41 (currently 1.4), but will do that before starting anything serious.

 

I'm really keen to use the Cobalt Digital because the slow action is so realistic, and theoretically with a built-in decoder and no soldering required, it ought to be simple to set-up (is anything??), also the option to use a switch, again with just a couple

 

of extra wires - it seems ideal.

[Fishmanoz]

The instructions in the Cobalt Digital leaflet for Elite programming say:

 

Install the CD on the track or connect directly to the Elite.

Turn off RailCom

Move the CD slider switch to Set

Press Acc on the Elite

If the Elite address is

 

the one you want for your point, simply return the slider switch to run and it will respond to that address and you are finished.

If you want a different address, press Acc again and select that address by rotating the knob until it is displayed. Now return

 

the slider switch to Run and it is done.

 

So would seem it couldn't be simpler, providing we can actually turn of Rsilcom as I suggest.

[Fishmanoz]

Just a clarification on RailCom - the ability to turn it off and on is only within a loco decoder where it is part of CV 29. There is no facility for setting it off or on the the Elite itself.

 

Therefor, if it is on by default, there is no way to

 

turn it off. However, under Operate Mode on p42, it says:

 

The Elite automatically turns on RailCom support when a read back request is executed in 'Operational' mode. This gives a strong indication that it off in the first place, or why say this. To

 

confirm, I'm going to ask HCC and I'll let you know the answer.

[Bulleidboy]

Well done, I look forward to hearing what the answer is.

[Kiwi_Dee]

Still no joy for me, anybody else had any luck?

 

I also e-mailed HCC but no word as yet.

[Fishmanoz]

No point talking to HCC about this, they have no expertise. The ones who know are HRMS. And the reply received from them tonight to my Railcom question says:

 

It is strange that you need to have RailCom off in order to program your

Cobalt point

 

motors. This would imply that the point motors are not NMRA

compatible although we understand that they are.

 

RailCom defaults to being inactive on the DCC controller and only comes on

when a RailCom related request is made, so unless your Cobalt

 

point motor is

using RailCom requests while programming there should not be a link there.

 

Both the Elite and eLink are NMRA compliant and therefore should not need

anything to be done in order to program Cobalt point motors, assuming the

latter

 

are also NMRA compliant.

 

We have been monitoring a thread on the Hornby support forum related to this

(presumably from you) and have not replied yet because we have ordered all

of the variants of Cobalt point motor so that we can test this issue

thoroughly

 

and provide a definitive answer as there seems to be some

contradictory advice, even from the manufacturers.

 

We will publish our results of testing in due course, however can say that

we know for a fact that there are many users of Cobalt point

 

motors with

Elite+RailMaster and eLink+RailMaster who do not seem to have problems.

 

Regards

Hornby RailMaster Support

 

[Fishmanoz]

So they should be dead easy to program. Rsilcom is off so all you need to do is out the Cobalt in learn mode and switch to the point address you want. Nothing more to do according to the manual as I've quoted it above.

 

Can someone try it and report

 

back? Suggest it be the first thing done after start up to avoid any read back requests having been executed turning Rc on.

[Bulleidboy]

Hi Fishmanoz

 

Well a good answer, but really confirms what you said a couple of days ago. Interesting that they were monitoring this, and will be doing there own testing of the product - watch this space. I do wonder whether 'some' people over-complicate

 

what they are trying to do - on one of the other forums a guy had about fifty CD's, and he was looking for a replacement because none of them worked properly - there were suggestions that you add this, take away that etc. In it's simplest form the CD just

 

needs two wires stuck in holes and away you go - am I being to simplistic?

[Fishmanoz]

Don't think so BB, that's pretty much what Richard and HRMS and the CD manual all say. Programming seems to be a simple matter of switching, addressing and switching back. Actual programming action not required beyond that switch. I think maybe Richard

 

has made it so simple that people are possibly trying to be too complicated.

 

However, before we conclude on this, I'd love to hear from someone who has now been able to do it to confirm.

[AyrshireJambo]

Fishmanoz said:

Don't think so BB, that's pretty much what Richard and HRMS and the CD manual all say. Programming seems to be a simple matter of switching, addressing and switching back. Actual programming action not required beyond that

switch. I think maybe Richard has made it so simple that people are possibly trying to be too complicated.

However, before we conclude on this, I'd love to hear from someone who has now been able to do it to confirm.

[AyrshireJambo]

Hi all

as the one who started this thread, can I just point out that it refers to cobalt digital, elink and railmaster, not cobalt analogue or hornby elite.

the problem ks specific to CD and elink, and is backed up by Richard at DCC Concepts.

I

 

have successfully used the CD with Bachmann Dynamis, and also the elink with ADS2 and ADS8 decoders from dcc concepts with sep motors. I therefore know how both sides work, and am certainly not overckmllicating thjngs.

I have read all ghe jnstructikns,

 

and put ghem into practice with the eauipment as above.

my original post was in the hope of finding someone who had actually found the answer to the problem in practice.

speculatiin does not help, therefore, with respect, I would suggest that unless

 

you have attempted to get the actual equipment mentioned in the thread to work, either successfully or nit, that further debate is pointless.

richard believes ghere is a problem, he sells the kit, I believe there is a problem, I have the kit, I just wish

 

ghat Hornby would have the good grace to comment, either positively or negafuvely.

thanks for all your input, but in reality we are no fhrther forward.

[AyrshireJambo]

Hi all

as the one who started this thread, can I just point out that it refers to cobalt digital, elink and railmaster, not cobalt analogue or hornby elite.

the problem ks specific to CD and elink, and is backed up by Richard at DCC Concepts.

I

 

have successfully used the CD with Bachmann Dynamis, and also the elink with ADS2 and ADS8 decoders from dcc concepts with seep motors. I therefore know how both sides work, and am certainly not over complicating things.

I have read all the instructions,

 

and put them into practice with the equipment as above.

my original post was in the hope of finding someone who had actually found the answer to the problem in practice.

speculation does not help, therefore, with respect, I would suggest that unless

 

you have attempted to get the actual equipment mentioned in the thread to work, either successfully or nit, that further debate is pointless.

richard believes ghere is a problem, he sells the kit, I believe there is a problem, I have the kit, I just wish

 

ghat Hornby would comment, either positively or negafuvely.

Thanks for all your input, but in reality we are no further forward.

[Bulleidboy]

Fishmanoz said:

Don't think so BB, that's pretty much what Richard and HRMS and the CD manual all say. Programming seems to be a simple matter of switching, addressing and switching back. Actual programming action not required beyond that

switch. I think maybe Richard has made it so simple that people are possibly trying to be too complicated.

However, before we conclude on this, I'd love to hear from someone who has now been able to do it to confirm.

Hi Fishmanoz

Well

I've tried it - and it didn't work - which really is very disappointing.
I have an Elite (only updated to 1.4 not 1.41), and I have the latest CD with in-built decoder. Before commencing I watched both Hornby videos on programming and operating points.

1. Wired CD direct to programming ports on Elite, and set CD switch to "SET" -
2. Went through programming sequence as shown in video (I made notes) - everything happened as shown in video - LED's flashed when they should etc. I gave the point number 61.

Turned power off.
3. Wired CD direct to track ports on Elite, and set CD switch to "RUN" - turned on power - CD went through a movement as power was applied - so connection ok.
4. Using the sequence for point operation - nothing.

I followed every

instruction to the letter. So not the answer we were hoping for. Whether the Elite needs to be at 1.41 may be the reason. I look forward to what HRMS have to say. One thing I haven't done, and might be worth a try, is to wire up a switch and see whether it

works manually - which would probably be quicker in normal day to day operation. Please feel free to comment.

[Fishmanoz]

BB,that's not exactly what Richard said. From my post quoting him, he said:

 

Put cobalt digital into learn mode, then, using the elites own point changing procedure, act as if you are already changing a point at the address you wish it to be, then

 

return cobalt digital to run mode.

 

So you don't do it on the programming track, you do it on the main, and you just change the point you want the CD to be, and that's the point it is. No programming as such at all. Clearly in set mode, it just reads

 

the address you send the instruction to and makes itself that address.

[Bulleidboy]

Understood - I'll give it another go.

[Bulleidboy]

Still no joy. I read Richard's instruction again, although I fully understood your comment, and where I had gone wrong. The CD moves when power is turned on. Current position is:

1. CD connected to Elite track ports.

2. CD in "set" (learn)mode.

3.

 

Elite used to change point as per manual with address/number nominated.

4. CD Switched to "run" mode

5. Elite used to change point in manner described in manual.

Nothing - I don't think I missed anything.

[Fishmanoz]

That's disappointing. I'll see what Richard has to say. And it will be interesting to see what HRMS say too.