Bulleidboy Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I just thought I'd mention that I upgraded the Elite to 1.41 today. I didn't think it would make any difference in programming the Cobalt, and it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 BB, have 2 replies from Richard and will copy the first just below. Unfortunately I didn't get the other from my laptop to here on the iPad but I'll try to remember it for you. And first remember that HRMS says RailCom is off unless a read back is executed, and that there is no way to turn it on or off: All accessory decoders have the same procedure. Tell them to make sure that Railcom is definitely turned off - Hornby's Railcom timing is slightly off and it causes problems with programming accessory decoders. Tell them to try several times too - When we tried the ELink system it was really flaky and took several tries to get addressing to take properly. (Railcom really is a problem - Even lenz who invented it has trouble with accessory decoders and railcom - their manual shows several different timing settings to overcome problems, and ESU, who also use it, recommend turning it off when programming accessory decoders) In his next he says something like - do as above but then in learn mode, follow the instructions for the Elite to program a number, then put back to run mode. Then go back to learn mode and select and try to throw the point. Now back in run mode it will work. At least I think that is what he said. I'll check tomorrow and amend if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 This is the actual quote from Richard's customer: Quote >> enquote Having found that, also take a look on the RM forum where phlox has managed to program his AD-S8s the simple way with RM, no fiddling around needed. So there is certainly something "fishy" going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Oops, the quote is missing. I'll try again. I have just taken delivery of another ADS-8. I connected them to the control rail with the ADS in the learn position as you suggested, but still needed to go through the Hornby protocol for writing to a decoder ie. Accessory - Direct - Write - number - enter . Then strangely on returning the ADS switch to operate it did not function until I put the switch to learn, operated the point, returned the switch to operate, and everything worked perfectly. I think Hornby have made their system specific to their decoders! I repeated the procedure successfully for the other seven channels. It appears that you can set up the ADS wit the Elite using the bus, but it still has a quirk. I will continue to replace all my Hornby decoders with ADS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlox Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Fishmanoz said: This is the actual quote from Richard's customer: Quote >> enquote Having found that, also take a look on the RM forum where phlox has managed to program his AD-S8s the simple way with RM, no fiddling around needed. So there is certainly something "fishy" going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlox Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Hi there. i basically in the end used to bottom drop down option, which is a single 'port' accessory decoder. i set the switch on decoder to learn and set it to '61'.. this worked for me. I have not tried the same with the other 7 yet, as i have now gone back to actually physically fixing the point motors to the baseboard. Something else i found on at least 2 more forums. the 1 amp power supply which comes with the elink. Suggest upgrading it. i went for the 4 amp one. I do not know if that helped with the acc. decoder problem, but it certainly seems to make railmaster/elink behave more reliably. I should add, im new to railway modelling, so please feel free to ignore owt i have said :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlox Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Phlox said: Hi there. i basically in the end used the last decorder option in the drop down menu, which is a single 'port' accessory decoder. i set the switch on decoder to learn and set it to '61'.. this worked for me. I have not tried the same with the other 7 yet, as i have now gone back to actually physically fixing the point motors to the baseboard. Something else i found on at least 2 more forums. the 1 amp power supply which comes with the elink. Suggest upgrading it. i went for the 4 amp one. I do not know if that helped with the acc. decoder problem, but it certainly seems to make railmaster/elink behave more reliably. I should add, im new to railway modelling, so please feel free to ignore owt i have said :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Phlox, don't worry about the lack of experience, you are making sense, and you have managed to program the decoder where others have failed. And yes, most will be wanting to upgrade their eLink supply to the 4 amp soon, although the 1 amp is ok to start with. I have only one question for you and that is why you seem to be starting your addressing at 61. I know Select does this, but the reason is the limited number of addresses available in the Select because it only does short addressing and uses the first 59 numbers for locos. For eLink and RM, the manual suggests you start at 1, which is not essential but probably makes your point numbering a little easier. You can feel free to ignore this too, it's not essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi Fishmanoz Tried again today (now V1.41) no success. However one thing I did try was to Disable Railcom. From previous postings it would appear that Railcom is Disabled permanently and is then Enabled when going through a certain procedure. Using information in the latest Elite Manual, you do reach a stage where the display on the Elite says Railcon Disable (so it is OFF in normal operation) - by pushing/turning Control Knob 1, you can Enable it. If you go the end of the procedure without physically doing further button pushing/knob turning, you push Menu to end the sequence. So I think it is possible to have Railcom either off or on. I programmed my point address as 61 - I thought the Hornby Point Accessory Decoder started points at 61 and in batches of four - automatic numbering for the next three points? What is an AD-S8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Do you think I might have damaged the Cobalt in trying the address it with wires to the programming ports? I'm also not using either eLink or Railmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 No BB, I don't think connection to the programming output will cause damage. All this output is is a DCC output with a lower power output to avoid damage, and to which DCC programming commands are routed. Even if you have somehow damaged it, DCC Concepts have a replacement warranty to which you should be entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Just back on the issue as to whether the default setting for Railcom is off or on, with HRMS saying it is off and Richard suggesting he has been told it is on in later Elites, I think this may be explained by something told to me by HCC today. They advised that Railcom is not implemented st all in firmware versions prior to 1.2. I think that it is there at all in later Elite firmware has confused some as to its default status, and therefore the default is really off as HRMS advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_and_Matt Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Hi all We are late to this thread, but we are having exactly the same problem with Elite and Cobalt DCC. We have tried every permutation we can see and no joy. This is the second Cobalt we've had, as the first was damaged and replaced under warranty. We are using this one to test options before we adopt a standard point motor for our layout and at this stage it is not looking good with the Cobalt, which is a shame as they seem an excellent choice (except it doesn't work...) We also have a Traintronics TT300 on order to test - does anyone have any experience of using these with the Elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Hi P and M, please note you are looking at the info on Cobalt with Rm and eLink here. Try the DCC thread where Cobalt and Elite are covered, including solutions people say work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Oops, my apologies, now I'm getting confused with forums and thread titles. But do look in both forums as there is info in both that people report as working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildebeeste Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I updated my Elite to 1.41 yesterday and like others have tried all the suggested methods for programming the Cobalt DCC motor. So far no joy, and more worryingly when you operate it from a push button it gives a loud click at the end of its travel. If I use a push button and a 9v DC power supply, the motor operates slowly and smoothly without any clicking. Does anyone know if the Elite output from the Track terminals is too high for the Cobalt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 It's designed to work with the track supply including operation of the push button, so should be no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooliganHedgehog Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Hi Guys, I haven't read EVRY posting on this subject so please forgive me if the following has already been said:- I run Cobalt Points with Elite & RM. I initially had problems getting them to work with anything other than passing switches until I changed the setting in RM to Hornby R8247 4 Port decoder. Immediately all but 1 started working properly. I could not fathom out why this one would not work, so I contacted DCC Concepts. They told me to remove the motor and holding it square on, tap it firmly on a table top. Apparently when a partial signal is received the motor can stall. Tapping it releases the cogs. Did this and hey presto. Regarding the clunk at the end of throw, they advised putting a 200 ohm resistor in one of the track power supply wires. Did this and they now work brilliantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi HHH, can you explain a little further please. Or if I may suggest. Are you setting up the 8247 giving you 4 point address, then putting each of 4 decoders into learn mode one at a time and operating one of the 4 points to give that point the corresponding port address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooliganHedgehog Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Fishmanoz said: Hi HHH, can you explain a little further please. Or if I may suggest. Are you setting up the 8247 giving you 4 point address, then putting each of 4 decoders into learn mode one at a time and operating one of the 4 points to give that point the corresponding port address?Hi Fishy, I am using Digital Cobalt Points so they have their own decoders. I have 'named' them 1 through to 17 as per the Cobalt instructions (Without Rail Master turned on). Then, in RM on the track plan I have set the points up as being of the Hornby R8247 4 Port Decoder type. That was how I eventually got them working. However, and I think this may have happened in the case originally mentioned above, in all the trial and testing, time and time again it is possible that a partial instruction has been received causing the motor to stall. Once that has happened NOTHING will get it going until by physical means the cogs have been persuaded to release themselves. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooliganHedgehog Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Just to clarify further. In the RM set up panel for each set of points the settings are :- Controller A Decoder Port (in my case 1 through to 17 which includes 4 'pairs' with duplicated numbers) Type Hornby R8247 4-Port Decoder I have no experience with the Hornby Decoders but assume the Controller identity 'A' 'B' or whatever refers to each set of four points it controls. With Cobalt all of my points are designated as Controller A I have posted a screen dump here : - http://www.vsoc-centre12.co.uk/RMPoints.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 HooliganHedgehog said: ... I have no experience with the Hornby Decoders but assume the Controller identity 'A' 'B' or whatever refers to each set of four points it controls. With Cobalt all of my points are designated as Controller A ... @HH Controller A and B only applies if you have 2 controllers - say A for the loco control and B for the points, signals, etc. This is the way I have RM set up, Elite for locos and E-Link for points. If you only have 1 controller (Elite or E-Link) then this controls both locos and all groups of points usually as Controller A. If running 2 controllers then you have to be aware of which controller is connected to the programming track and use that for set up, or swap your prog track between controllers as necessary. Normally you only set up points decoders once, whereas you may fiddle with loco CVs more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooliganHedgehog Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Thanks for that RAFHAAA96th. As I said I have no experience or knowledge of Hornby Points Controllers. I use either passing switches or RM to change the points. It would be interesting to know how you change points using the Elite controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooliganHedgehog Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 D'oh, sorry ... Just read what I said ....... should have read..... It would be interesting to know how you switch points using a SELECT Controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 @HH I'm confused now... Select can't be used with RM as it has no USB interface to connect with your pc/laptop, unless it is used as a walkabout add on to an Elite. I'm not familiar with Cobalts but assume their built in decoders act as accessory decoders as well as point motor drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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