Ngs88 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Just been trying to program some cobalt digitals using the Elite with no luck until I fitted a 200 ohm resister in one supply leg. Immediately programmed perfectly. Seems this is the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinE Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 MetmanUK said: Progress at last! The Cobalt Digitals box contains a slip which contains the following "If you have a European made DCC system or work in larger scales which use higher voltages, please add a 1/4 watt, 400 ohm resistor in series with one wire to your Cobalt Digital to stabilise power at the right level for perfect operation. Doing this will ensure best performance and reliable operation." I had previously asked Richard at DCC Concepts if the Digitals worked with the Hornby e-Link and Hornby Booster units or would they require another power supply. He said they "can be powered directly from the power bus". Also, in my email exchanges with Richard he also supplied detailed instructions for getting the Digitals working. He did not mention a resistor. I therefore concluded that Hornby did not come under the "European" heading. I had reached the stage where 5 motors operated, 5 did not and 2 others that had worked no longer did so. I had restarted my research into alternative motors and for some reason re-read this thread. I was struck by how definite HH was about inserting a 200 ohm resistor into the power/DCC supply cable. I decided to purchase some from my local Maplins and give it a (final) go. To my surprise the 7 non-operating Digitals worked. One which started, then stopped was brought back to life by the 'tap' method having slightly loosened the screws first. I will now go for a lie down, afterwhich I will double and triple check everything and post my conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinE Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 First time user, hit the wrong button on first attempt, hence rubbish sent !!! I fitted 10 cobalt digital point motors a couple of weeks ago connected via e-link to the rail-master programme and accounted all the hit and miss operational problems that I've read about in this forum. I bought some 100 ohm resistors and fitted them into one of the DCC supply lines on each motor and from then on no problems where encountered in programming and running them. I had to use the reverse polarity tick box a few times to get them to synchronise with the rail-master track diagram but other than that - success. One thing I did notice was after changing the reverse polarity tick box it would only change it physically if you shut rail-master down and re- booted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Well done Colin, glad you got them to work. Interesting you only needed 100 ohm, not 400, for reliable operation. Although a more relevant question might be why any is needed given these are designed for HO/OO. Also interesting re the reverse polarity and its only being operational after a reboot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinE Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Fishmanoz said: Well done Colin, glad you got them to work. Interesting you only needed 100 ohm, not 400, for reliable operation. Although a more relevant question might be why any is needed given these are designed for HO/OO. Also interesting re the reverse polarity and its only being operational after a reboot. At first I used 400 ohm resistors as per DCC Concept's advice but they seemed to slow the motors down quite noticeably so I experimented with other values. Rail-masters e-link bus voltage at 15.3V is only slightly over the manufacturers recommended of 15V so it doesn't need to drop it by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinE Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I've just I encountered a slight snag when using a resistor to drop the voltage to below 15V on the Cobalt DCC point motors. The way the frog switching is carried out on the Cobalt it means that the frog voltage is reduced when the point is set in the direction which incorporates the resistor in its feed resulting in the loco slowing while transversing the frog. I've solved the problem on my layout by using the auxiliary switch for frog polarity but that does mean it is not available for other uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetmanUK Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 ColinE said: I've just I encountered a slight snag when using a resistor to drop the voltage to below 15V on the Cobalt DCC point motors. The way the frog switching is carried out on the Cobalt it means that the frog voltage is reduced when the point is set in the direction which incorporates the resistor in its feed resulting in the loco slowing while transversing the frog. I've solved the problem on my layout by using the auxiliary switch for frog polarity but that does mean it is not available for other uses. I encountered that too, Colin, but I found the loco stopped altogether. I was going to write up my experiences with RM and Cobalt Digitals here sometime - I have done so in great detail on another forum so I'll try to reproduce some of that here shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Hi Guys,I know this thread is over 12 months old but thought I would resurect it as I am having exactly all the symptoms described here regarding using the Elite (with or without RM) to program the Cobalt point motors. Firstly, as time as moved on, I should point out that I am using Cobalt IP Digitals and that my Elite is running latest firmware 1.42. Not sure if the IP functionality affects the idea of adding a resistor?? That's a very useful tip regarding frog voltage drop when using resistors so will use the additional SPDT switch if I do need to add them. So, my question is in the 13 months since this thread came to an abrupt close has ANYONE got a definitive answer in how to successfully and consistently program these blighters using Hornby Elite controller with or without RM. One further word. The newer Cobalts now come with a self centering facility turned ON by default. So you have to program them twice. Firstly (after installation and alignment) turn off the self centering by sending address 198 to it. Then again to set the actual address number you want to use. Yesterday I tried dozens of times just to set address 198, never mind, the actual address. It was same on 3 different units. Finally got one to work by replacing the Elite with E-Link. Answers please asap as I have another 11 of these to install. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetmanUK Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I can't add any more than I have said previously re programming via RM and e-Link. However, I have recently come across a little oddity where a Peco motor controlled via a DCC Concepts ADS8 with ID of 7 throws at the same time as 2 Cobalt Digitals with ID 28 and visa versa. No amount of reprogramming and creating new track plans changed this behaviour. Setting the CDs to ID 29 resolved the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 TWD, I assume you've downloaded and read the full manual from DCC Concepts site? For a start, it seems to imply they come with self-centring off, not on. Irrespective, setting 198 should be the same as setting any other address, then you have to cycle the controller power off then on again to change the self-centring state. How do you know it hasn't changed to that address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 TWD, I assume you've downloaded and read the full manual from DCC Concepts site? For a start, it seems to imply they come with self-centring off, not on. Irrespective, setting 198 should be the same as setting any other address, then you have to cycle the controller power off then on again to change the self-centring state. How do you know it hasn't changed to that address? Fishy, SC is definitely set to ON by default. I know it hasn't taken the address because when I switch the controller OFF/ON again it does another SC. I've tried 4 out of my dozen so far. Yes, I've read the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 That's a puzzle then TWD. I suggest you email Richard at DCC Concepts, his email is on the site, and see what he has to say. Give him as much info as you can incl they work with eLink and not Elite with or without RM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Got it working in the end. I was trying to remove the self centering function without setting a new address at the same time. You must do both WITHOUT switching Elite OFF in between. I can post the full method on here if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Not sure I understand that TWD. What happens if you just set SC off via 198 then cycle the power? Isn't it still on default address 1 and will throw a point addressed to 1? Then, if you set a new address, is it not now set to throw that point and you can also use 198 to set SC off if not already done? The manual certainly doesn't show any relationship between the 2 actions, address and SC on/off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Not sure I understand that TWD. What happens if you just set SC off via 198 then cycle the power? Isn't it still on default address 1 and will throw a point addressed to 1? Then, if you set a new address, is it not now set to throw that point and you can also use 198 to set SC off if not already done? The manual certainly doesn't show any relationship between the 2 actions, address and SC on/off. No, if you just set address 198 and switch off/on then it will still self centre when you switch back on. You have to SET address 198, change switch to RUN and click to set it. Then back to SET, put your new address in, back to RUN and click to check it responds to it, then cycle on/off and self centering is cancelled. You can do the same thing using 199 to re-activate self centering. The manual is wrong where it says you can swicth off/on between actions - trust me it doesn't work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think you need to email Richard Johnson owner of DCC Concepts and ask him why his manual is so wrong? I would be very interested in reading his reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm with Flashbang, let Richard know and tell us his reply. Might just be an Elite/eLink thing for all we know too. I think he has them to test now although he's anything but a Hornby fan (toy trains, not real model railway). And can you just change SC without doing any address setting, just leaving it at default of 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I will carry out further tests later today or tomorrow so I am sure of my facts before emailing Richard. I will make a video of me doing it to prove to everybody I am either right or an idiot. The answer to your last question Fishy is NO from my previous testing. Watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Well, as reported earlier on the MR forum, my further testing proved inconclusive as now all my Cobalts happily accept the 198 (and 199) addresses and respond accordingly without have to set a new ID address. I can only think that whereas prior testing was done on virgin out of the box motors, this latest round of tests have been performed on previously re-addressed motors, but in all honesty, I can't give a suitable explaination why. My saving grace is that I had actually taken a video of the previous tests showing it not working. All I can suggest is if it doesn't work the way Richard at DCC says it should, then try my way before sending it back. Edit: Actually when I said "all my Cobalts" in the first sentence above, I did only test 2, but felt that the consistent results shown by them to be reason enough to not retest the whole box again. Incidently, I've had to send 2 out of the 12 back as being otherwise faulty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 My suspicions in previous post have been vindicated. I got 2 new motors today (replacements for the 2 duff ones reported above). Indeed, a brand new out-of box motor does not accept 198 followed by a power off. Once correctly programmed it will work OK every time. I made myself a video to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I had had the same problems as TWD - we had been liasing on the Model Railway Forum (there are others). With regards to the Self-Centering (SC) - the instructions that come with the motors (I also bought twelve), explain that Codes 198 and 199 are for activation/deactivation of the SC. It then, in "red" clearly states "Activate self-centering (already ON by default). I used TWD's method of programming - and my Cobalts now work. I too, would be interested in Richards (DCC Concepts) reply, as has already been said, he thinks Hornby only make train sets - and the only reason items don't work is because purchasers have not read the instructions. Having said that, he has been extremely helpful on a large number of questions raised on another forum.I had one motor that would not work on DCC, but was fine when "switched" - after a number of switching operations I programmed it again and it now works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 BB, Do you have Richard' email address? If so can you PM it to me on tother forum. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 richard@dccconcepts.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hmmm..... richard@ bounces back but sales@ is OK.R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 [snip] I have contacted Sales@ before but it didn't reach Richard, but got someone called Rand Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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