ESU Switch Pilot With Peco point Motors on E Link - Working Now!

[Honvik]

After two weeks I now have this damn ting working!!!!!! Whoo Hooooo its actually remarkably simple to do jus the instructions aren't the best only problem I have now is when ever I switch the points I get a short circuit message so just gotta work out

 

why and were that's occurring many thanks for everyone who helped with this !!!

[RDS]

@Honvik

I am pleased you have sorted out the problem you had.

In order to keep the whole discussion together though and so that other people can learn from your experience, it may have been better to add your latest comment onto the end of your original

 

Thread, rather than starting up a new one. Just a thought!

[Fishmanoz]

Email RM Support about your short circuit message, that's the kind of thing they need to know about.

 

Was it just a matter of following the RM instructions after selecting the Switchpilot, or did you have to read its manual too? And if it was the

 

RM instructions unclear, tell Rm Support about that too so they can consider if they should change the words. We need to help them help us.

[neilth108]

After two weeks I now have this damn ting working!!!!!! Whoo Hooooo its actually remarkably simple to do jus the instructions aren't the best only problem I have now is when ever I switch the points I get a short circuit message so just gotta work out

 

why and were that's occurring many thanks for everyone who helped with this !!!

Could you please post the instructions. My son has a set with and is using a select controller. I bought an E-link for him and 4 ESU switch pilot point decoders as I couldn't get the Hornby version in time for Xmas 14. Despite numerous offerings from various people on this forum for over a year I still cannot get the thing to operate the point motors. It reads the decoder settings and writes back by changing the connections but when the connections are changed to use the decoder by connecting both the Trk pair & Pwr pair to Elink Track it clicks a solenoid once and states there is a short circuit and have to reset. It constantly looses its connection to the computer also. I don't want to sound patronising but I am an Electrical Engineer by trade and have a detailed knowledge of programming PLC controllers and control systems and cannot believe that I cannot get such a simple 4 wire device to work. I have assumed that the unit is faulty but thought I'd try again.

Any advise would be appreciated

Using dedicated Vista PC for RM only, Railmater 1.60 & Elink1.04

 

  Regards

Neil

[Chrissaf]

@Honvik

@neilth108

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This is only a theory, but I think I can explain why you are seeing a 'short circuit' message.

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Firstly, the ESU SwitchPilot does not contain an integral CDU (Capacitor Discharge Unit). If a CDU was present in the decoder there would be a level of electrical isolation between the power source and the point motor.

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Neil, you have stated that on the SwitchPilot you have connected the Track Power and Power Pair together. Although this is a valid configuration for the SwitchPilot. It does mean that your point firing current is coming from the e-link track output.

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A typical solenoid point has a coil resistance in the region of 4 ohms. This low value is very nearly a short circuit. If you apply 'ohms law' maths. The calculated current draw required to throw the point is in the region of 3.5amps. Your e-link (assuming using the standard power pack) can only supply 1 amp. Thus, it sees a 3.5amp load as being a short circuit and trips the e-link safety cutout because the 3.5 amps significantly exceeds the e-link 1 amp current supply capacity.

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In order to get your SwitchPilots working with e-link I suggest that you provide the SwitchPilots with their own dedicated DC power supply. That is to say, split the SwitchPilot links between the Track DCC and Power connections. Leave the DCC track connected to the DCC track input, but connect your SwitchPilot power input to a separate DC power supply of at least 18volts. The external separate power supply option has been well documented on previous posts - for example see this one.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/9165/?p=2

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The poster in the above link used an ex laptop power supply providing 19.5volts at 3.3amps to solve his SwitchPilot point operation issues. Relatively cheap 19 volt laptop power supplies are readily available from places like Amazon. Look for for ones advertised as Genuine and pay a little more than the really cheap ones. The really cheap ones may be counterfeit clones that are dangerous fire hazards.

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I am aware that Hattons of Liverpool were advertising these SwitchPilots as substitutes for Hornby's R8247 when the Hornby products were out of stock. But they were wrong, they are not 'one for one' replacements. They have different operational characteristics and power requirements to the Hornby product.

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EDIT: The fact that you are getting a solenoid click followed by the short circuit message probably means that you have the decoders programmed correctly. They are trying to operate as programmed. It is just the current issue I have documented that is preventing full operation.

[RDS]

... The poster in the above link used an ex laptop power supply providing 19.5volts at 3.3amps to solve his SwitchPilot point operation issues ...

 

 I am the poster that Chris refers to above and now, 2 weeks after that post I have completed all my point installations and they work 100% of the time with the (ex) laptop supply.

 

This made all the difference to me and I was using an Elite Power Supply previously that has 4 times the current output of the elink.  The increased volts (19.5 withe Laptop PSU) have made all the difference.

 

I have so far found the Switchpilot to be an excellent Decoder, when programmed using a guide I had obtained from this forum.

 

[Fishmanoz]

Just an observation - my memory tells me when someone first cracked how to program these over 12 months ago using the programming mode switch on the item, there was no talk about any necessity for a separate power supply, the DCC track supply was used.  We know there have been 2 different designs of this item sold, you have to wonder if the current requirements have changed too.

[Chrissaf]

Hi RDS,

As you can see I'm still labouring the point (in-joke).

Chris

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[Chrissaf]

@Honvik

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Further to my earlier reply. I've just noticed that there is reference to Peco point motors in your original topic title. I would bring to your attention that when using an external separate power supply there is a special CV configuration setting in the SwitchPilot when using Peco point motors. It's mentioned in the SwitchPilot manual section 9 (extract below).

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9.3. Configuration of an output for PECO solenoid drives If you wire a PECO solenoid drive to an output write the value 1 into the corresponding configuation-CV. This adjusts the overload (over current) protection to the higher values for PECO solenoid drives. If you would like to use PECO turnout motors you have to use an external transformer to supply the SwitchPilot with enough current. See section 6.5

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Note the highlighted reference to the need for an external power supply when using Peco point motors.

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The full manual from which the above extract was taken can be downloaded here

[RDS]

...  We know there have been 2 different designs of this item sold, you have to wonder if the current requirements have changed too...

 

 I don't know but I wonder now if the surface mounted motors would work with the laptop power supply.  I had originally intended to use surface mounted but I bought one and tried it with the Switchpilot powered from the track and it was very unreliable, in fact it would hardly work at all.  I may try sometime to see if the extra volts would improve those.  If so I may use them for uncouplers.

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

A plague on the house of Hatton I say, for ever thinking of stocking these when there are so many other good, easy to program ones around that don't need the complication of an external supply.  We could have saved gigabytes of forum storage and hours of downloading long and complicated manuals and writing replies too.

[Teedoubleudee]

You can't blame Hattons for filling the gap left by the continuing failure of Hornby to maintain supplies of their own decoders. The product is to NRMA standards and a decent price. I currently have a mix of ESU and AD-S decoders, both of which have their issues but I'm finding ways round of using them in different ways. As far as point throwing is concerned I'm now going for slow action Cobalts. Some on here will say they are too expensive but if you consider you get the motor, built in DCC decoder and frog switching plus additional switches, I think that's not bad value. Plus you get prototypical action and no loud cracking noise (AD-S) or "did it do it or not" (ESU).

 

I'm not knocking Hornby here as I like their products, but their suppliers have let them done badly. Like many others who bought the ESU from Hattons, it was because we wanted to get on and build our layouts and not wait around for literally months for Hornby decoders to come "in stock"

[RDS]

I have no regrets at all about buying the SwitchPilot.  It looks a very professional unit and works well with an external power supply.  It was also very reasonably priced.

[Fishmanoz]

Sorry TWD, I stick by what I said.  The lack of the 8247 didn't leave a hole in the market as there were already many decoders out there.  There were at least 3 slow action motors, with or without decoders attached and most with all the switching needed.  And there were more than 3 solenoid point motor decoders with various powers and ease of programming.  Your own experience proves that.

 

I'm not trying to imply anything wrong with the Switchpilot and agree that, once set up, it seems like a good unit as RDS says.  The problem is "once set up" which is a complicated exercise at best and requires a separate power supply for reliable operation. It is certainly not a drop-in replacement for an 8247 and given that, Hatton's advertising was misleading.  The extensively documented experiences of those who posted on here prove that.

 

I have nothing against Hattons by the way, I've bought quite a lot from them and have no complaints, but they got this one wrong, in my opinion.

[neilth108]

As I work away for months on end it is very rare I get back home to have another look at the problem so many thanks for the reply and your advise. I did indeed buy these from Hattons and they did state they were a direct substitute for the Hornby version. I will try a laptop power supply as suggested, hopefully this will work.

Thanks once again

@neilth108

[Chrissaf]

Neilth108, thanks for bumping this post and making it visible again. I've recently been trying to relocate the original text I wrote in this reply and couldn't track it down. You've found it for me. So far, the laptop power supply solution has provided a fix with these particular decoders on more than one occasion.

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May I suggest that instead of clicking the BLUE reply button on each individual post, that you scroll down to the bottom of the page. Put your reply in the big white text box and click the GREEN reply button. Each time you press the BLUE button, all the text in the yellow box gets duplicated un-necessarily.

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This reply is an example of using the GREEN button. As you can see this reply is easier for others reading the topic thread if it is not buried in reams of duplicated yellow text. Or in your case realms of white duplicated text as well.

[Fishmanoz]

Neil, Chris is right about reply buttons, the green is far simpler.  Then you did your best to hide your answer as well, burying it between 2 copies of Chris's comprehensive text, but we found it anyway.

[Fishmanoz]

And again, Hattons marketing this as a direct replacement for an 8247 is quite misleading.  Over the last 18 months, it has lead to more DCC column content than any other issue.  And the price advantage evaporates as soon as you have to go and buy a separate power supply for it, not to mention the extra wiring to install it.