Cobalt Digital with Elite and Railmaster

[AlanH]

I have come to a dead end trying to address Cobalt Digital point motors from an Elite controller and Railmaster.

I have read and tried numerous fixes that have been suggested in these forums but none of them seem to work for me.

I have tried adressing

 

them just from the Elite with Railmaster turned off and also by following the DCC concepts method but I don't get any signs of life out of the motors at all. If however I connect a switch to operate it, the motor moves fine, so I know I am getting power to

 

the motor and that the motor is working ok. I am using the latest versions of Railmaster (1.53) and the Elite (1.41) and I have made sure the Elite is operating in Standard mode and I have put the switch back to run mode after trying to address it. I am new

 

and inexperienced with DCC so I may be making a silly mistake somewhere but I don't know where to go with this now so if anyone can give me any help I would very much appreciate it.

[Fishmanoz]

Latest RM is v1.55 so suggest you update to that and run as administrator.

 

Make sure in selecting a decoder for your points that you use a single port version with default pulse length of 100mSec, and that you have given your points numbers. Now

 

set the decoder you want to program into learn mode and use RM to throw the point you wish the decoder to operate. Return the switch to run mode and it should now be programmed.

[AlanH]

Thanks for the reply Fishmanoz.

 

On checking I am using V1.55 and my laptop is running windows XP so as far as I can make out from the Hornby manual running as an Administrator is not required in this case as this only seems applicable on Windows

 

Vista and above.

 

I have tried what you suggest but still no luck I'm afraid, this is what I have done so far:-

The Cobalt Digital is connected direct to the track output of the Elite.

In tack design I have selected the "NCE Snap-it single port

 

decoder" setting and named the point number 7.

I then saved the design and opened the track plan.

Selected the Acc option in the menu bar and in the drop down box selected "Cobalt point motor (with decoder)"

Changed the port number to 7 and selected

 

the write to decoder button.

This then tells me to connect the cobalt to the track and move the switch to Learn mode.

I then went back to the track plan and switched point 7 as you suggested.

Put the switch back to run and tried the point again but

 

nothing happens.

 

I can't find anywhere to change the pulse length for the cobalt, the only thing I can see is a box marked Delay and 12 entered in the box but I don't know what this does and I can't find any reference to it in the manual.

 

I have

 

tried 5 different motors now and get nothing out of any of them unless I operate them with a seperate switch when they all run.

 

Does the above seem to be the correct procedure to you or am I making a basic mistake?

 

[Fishmanoz]

Oops, just noticed my own mistake! If you see Graskie, tell him it's just as well I kept the hat as I'm talking through it again.

 

The problem is the pulse length,which is set when you set up the decoder, not the point. For Cobalt, this needs to

 

be set to continuous, given the motors aren't solenoid types.

 

So check that and see if it solves the problem for you. Next time I have RM open, I'll check those other parameters you mention, and check what the NCE default pulse length is for my own

 

satisfaction.

 

And I did suspect you were already at v1.55, and you are right about not needing admin rights for XP.

[HFM]

AlanH said:

Thanks for the reply Fishmanoz.

On checking I am using V1.55 and my laptop is running windows XP so as far as I can make out from the Hornby manual running as an Administrator is not required in this case as this only

seems applicable on Windows Vista and above.

I have tried what you suggest but still no luck I'm afraid, this is what I have done so far:-
The Cobalt Digital is connected direct to the track output of the Elite.
In tack design I have selected

the "NCE Snap-it single port decoder" setting and named the point number 7.
I then saved the design and opened the track plan.
Selected the Acc option in the menu bar and in the drop down box selected "Cobalt point motor (with decoder)"
Changed the

port number to 7 and selected the write to decoder button.
This then tells me to connect the cobalt to the track and move the switch to Learn mode.
I then went back to the track plan and switched point 7 as you suggested.
Put the switch back to run

and tried the point again but nothing happens.

I can't find anywhere to change the pulse length for the cobalt, the only thing I can see is a box marked Delay and 12 entered in the box but I don't know what this does and I can't find any reference to

it in the manual.

I have tried 5 different motors now and get nothing out of any of them unless I operate them with a seperate switch when they all run.

Does the above seem to be the correct procedure to you or am I making a basic mistake?

these

point motors are about the only thing I can get rm to talk to did it the same way you have attempted and they work fine.the only thing I can suggest is to make sure you have striped enough cable I think it is 10 ml that was the only problem I had

[Fishmanoz]

If you have other problems HFM, start threads on them with appropriate titles in the RM forum and we can see if we can help. Not a good idea to change topic in this thread as the title and content get confusing and you miss out on people who might help

 

but the wrong forum and title puts them off.

[HFM]

Fishmanoz said:

If you have other problems HFM, start threads on them with appropriate titles in the RM forum and we can see if we can help. Not a good idea to change topic in this thread as the title and content get confusing and you miss

out on people who might help but the wrong forum and title puts them off.

sorry but how have I changed the topic

[Fishmanoz]

You haven't but you say this is the only thing working I think. So I'm suggesting you can ask about other problems too but you'd be better off doing so in the RM forum as more people will see them there.

[AlanH]

HornbyForumMember said:


these point motors are about the only thing I can get rm to talk to did it the same way you have attempted and they work fine.the only thing I can suggest is to make sure you have striped enough cable I think it

is 10 ml that was the only problem I had

[AlanH]

Thanks HFM, I did check this and the contact wires all seemed to be ok.

 

I have now tried re-loading the software and I have confirmed that I can write to a loco with the Elite and then I can control it with either the Elite or by using Railmaster

 

so I know they are communicating but I still cannot address the cobalts from either the Elite on it's own or through Railmaster.

 

Fishmanoz,

 

I don't know how to change the pulse length for a Cobalt Digital as that option seems to disapear off

 

the menu when you select one, so I was assuming that it already knows it is a continuous pulse type motor or do I need to select this somewhere else?

 

I think a call to the Hornby helpdesk is on the agenda for tomorrow unless anyone has any other suggestions.

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Don't call any help desk, email RM Support from within the Help window in RM. That way, you'll be contacting people who know what they are talking about, and your log file in Rm am will be sentvtovthem so they will know exactly what you have been doing

 

to help them fault find.

 

By the way, if you are using a Cobalt option in RM, you won't get a pulse length choice as it should be set to continuous by default as this is the only way it will work.

[HooliganHedgehog]

Hi AlanH, I think you may be over complicating matters using RM. I use Cobalt Digital Motors, Elite and RM too and I program the motors before fitting to the track. I have the connection to RM uplugged and the Elite connected directly to the motor using

 

the Trank output (not the Program output). Have the motor switched to 'Set'. On the Elite press ACC twice, Type in the address you want the motor to have. ie '1' Press controller 1 then controller 2 (I have found sometimes pressing either one of them doesn't

 

program it, so I do both to be sure to be sure). Switch the Motor to 'Run'. I then switch the Elite off and back on again, and test by pressing ACC twice then the number ( 1 in this case) followed by pressing controller 1 then controller 2. The system remembers

 

which way the point is thrown, so if you press the controller for the direction it is already set it won't throw.

 

Once the motor is working, in RM I set it as :- Cotroller A, Port ( Point Number), Type Hornby R8247 4 Port Decoder and Switch (whichever

 

way you like).

 

Sorry if that sounds like teaching Grandma to suck eggs, but it might just help.

[Fishmanoz]

AlanH said:

I don't know how to change the pulse length for a Cobalt Digital as that option seems to disapear off the menu when you select one, so I was assuming that it already knows it is a continuous pulse type motor or do I need to select

this somewhere else?

Alan, sorry for any confusion caused but it is currently less than clear in RM what to do, and I'll explain why.

To operate your points, you have to do 2 things. First you put your points in your schematic,

snap point buttons to them, then right click the buttons to set the point number, decoder type etc. unfortunately here there is no Cobalt option. To overcome this, I suggest you just select the single port NCE option, but it really doesn't matter as long as

you have selected the point number you want.

The second thing you do is setup your decoder in the Accessories window. Now you have a Cobalt option which you should use. It doesn't give you a pulse length option because Cobalt has no option, it is continuous.

Set its output pot to the number you have the point.

Having done this, you can now return to the main window, switch your Cobalt to learn mode, operate the point you want it to control on your layout (being the point number you have already set above),

return to run mode and it should be done.

[MetmanUK]

Well, I now have my Cobalt Digitals (CBD) and so far I cannot raise any signs of life!

 

Having previously set up ADS-8s successfully I thought it would be a piece of cake. So far I have tried :-

i) different port numbers

ii) using R8247 and

 

'snap' in the point dialog box

iii) seting up the CBD via the Accessory Decoder (AD) menu option

iv) 2 CBDs

v) connecting via my Points Bus and from the track

vi) the CBD run/setup switch both ways for learning and operating

vii) using

 

the red test button in the AD dialog box

viii) using the download button in the AD dialog box

ix) confirmed the CBD has power

x) ... (can't think of anything else!)

 

I'm on RM 1.55

 

Has anyone achieved this yet ?

[Fishmanoz]

For setup purposes, Cobalt and ADS8 should be exactly the same. Set decoder option to Cobalt in accessory decoder setup and allocate port number. Set point number/decoder port number in layout design and, as there is no Cobalt suggest using NCE. Switch

 

Cobalt to learn. Throw point, return to run and it should be done. All connected to track not programming track by the way.

 

But that sounds like what you are doing?

[Fishmanoz]

And you can check most of that out by downloading the manual from the DCC Concepts website.

[AlanH]

MetmanUK said:

Well, I now have my Cobalt Digitals (CBD) and so far I cannot raise any signs of life!

Having previously set up ADS-8s successfully I thought it would be a piece of cake. So far I have tried :-
i) different port

numbers
ii) using R8247 and 'snap' in the point dialog box
iii) seting up the CBD via the Accessory Decoder (AD) menu option
iv) 2 CBDs
v) connecting via my Points Bus and from the track
vi) the CBD run/setup switch both ways for learning

and operating
vii) using the red test button in the AD dialog box
viii) using the download button in the AD dialog box
ix) confirmed the CBD has power
x) ... (can't think of anything else!)

I'm on RM 1.55

Has anyone achieved this

yet ?

I have had some success but it is not consistent.
So far I have managed to address 12 out of 24 cobalt's direct from the Elite. (using the DCC concepts instructions)
I have confirmed that all of them do have power as they will operate

with a push button switch but I cannot get the last 12 to accept an address at all.
Out of the 12 that I have addressed, 1 will only operate one way from the Elite but will operate both ways using a push button switch. (Explain that one if you can)
I

will try again today and also try and get the ones that are working to operate from Railmaster and will post again with any further progress I make.

[MetmanUK]

Fishmanoz said:

For setup purposes, Cobalt and ADS8 should be exactly the same. Set decoder option to Cobalt in accessory decoder setup and allocate port number. Set point number/decoder port number in layout design and, as there is no Cobalt

suggest using NCE. Switch Cobalt to learn. Throw point, return to run and it should be done. All connected to track not programming track by the way.

But that sounds like what you are doing?

Yes, effectively all you need to do is set

the point number and whilst in learn mode throw the point. I emailed Richard at DDC Concepts overnight and he confirms this. He has suggested rebooting the e-Link and also ensuring the Cobalt 'reports back'. As the e-Link is slow. I'll give it another go today.

[MetmanUK]

After hours and hours of trying different combinations I have managed to get 3 out of a box of 12 working. I'm not sure yet why, though! I'll send Richard at DDC Concepts an update email and see what he has to say.

[MetmanUK]

Richard responded - he is adamant that the problem lies with e-Link; it's slow communication and tendency to drop out. I have made further tests today and managed to get another 2 operational, one of which is the only one to be properly installed into

 

position. However, after taking a break for a few hours (unloading RM and switching off e-Link) no Cobalt Digital worked. Since then 2 have worked albeit intermittently. One of these is the installed motor which is on necked to my points power bus, the other

 

is connected by 2 short cables direct to the e-Link's Track output.

 

What do I conclude? If I use my experience of the Cobalt Digital as described above then Richard's prognosis is likely to be correct. However, just to confuse matters (or maybe not!),

 

throughout the testing of the last couple of days I have repeatedly tested my other (14) points. They have worked perfectly! They are Peco motors controlled by 2 DCC Concepts ADS-8 accessory decoders. On the face of it this contradicts Richard's assertion

 

somewhat.

 

I will get back to Richard and also raise the matter with Hornby.

[AlanH]

I now have 12 of the 24 cobalt Digital point motors working from Railmaster via the Elite, the other 12 will not accept an address at all so these are being replaced by the supplier.

The one that would only fire one-way with the Elite fires both ways

 

with Railmaster - I have no idea why this is the case but it is working fine now.

 

As HooliganHedgehog suggested when in design mode of Railmaster the Hornby 4 port decoder option needs to be selected and not the NCE snap-it single port decoder as they

 

will not operate if this option is chosen, so many thanks HH for this tip, it was a very useful piece of information.

 

As I understand it, the CD motors do not draw power when stationary (unlike the standard Cobalts that have a constant draw of 30ma)

 

therfore the NCE option is not suitable for the Digital type motors.

 

I hope the above may be of some use to others who may be experiencing simalar problems with this combination of equipment.

.

[MetmanUK]

AlanH said:

I now have 12 of the 24 cobalt Digital point motors working from Railmaster via the Elite, the other 12 will not accept an address at all so these are being replaced by the supplier.
The one that would only fire one-way with

the Elite fires both ways with Railmaster - I have no idea why this is the case but it is working fine now.

As HooliganHedgehog suggested when in design mode of Railmaster the Hornby 4 port decoder option needs to be selected and not the NCE snap-it

single port decoder as they will not operate if this option is chosen, so many thanks HH for this tip, it was a very useful piece of information.

As I understand it, the CD motors do not draw power when stationary (unlike the standard Cobalts that have

a constant draw of 30ma) therfore the NCE option is not suitable for the Digital type motors.

I hope the above may be of some use to others who may be experiencing simalar problems with this combination of equipment.
.

Interesting.

DCC Concepts say they do not use any Hornby menu options but if you must then NCE is the closest fit to CD.

I have 3 of 12 working in test mode using the NCE option (I think you have to make a choice otherwise the Hornby decoder will be used as default.

[AlanH]

But are they referring to the standard Cobalts or the Digital ones?

 

All I can tell you is that having used an Elite to address the decoders as per the DCC Concepts Digital Instructions and then connecting Railmaster, mine will only work with the

 

Hornby option selected when in track design mode as suggested by HH a few days ago. Remember this is not addressing the decoders it is only setting the parameters for system operation.

 

I have tried both options and if I change from the Hornby setting

 

to the NCE setting they no longer work, change back to Hornby and they work fine.

 

Who said DCC simplified model railways !!!

[AlanH]

MetmanUK

 

One other important difference is that from your posts you appear to be using Railmaster with e-link as opposed to myself who is using Railmaster with an Elite, so I can address the CD's from the Elite first with Railmaster disconnected.

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Why don't you select the Cobalt option?