idlemarvel Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Bummer, I forgot you can't trial pro-pack, only 1.56 "basic" (what is the word for non-pro-pack?), sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idlemarvel Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Maybe Hornby could give signalist a "developers licence" or similar to enable them to get their product added to the rather short list of train-tech signlas supported by pro-pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornbyRailMasterSupport Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 We are not sure who originated the following statement, however is has now been repeated several times on this forum:-"While this should work I have heard reports that there are bugs in Railmaster that means that in some circumstances Railmaster cannot be used to operate more than one signal on a decoder because the address on the screen is different to what is sent to the track. If that is the case you will have to wait for a resolution from Hornby – this bug affects all accessory decoders with more than one signal attached."This is simply not true and it appears that the person who originated the statement has never actually used RailMaster, let alone to control signals. To say "I have heard reports that there are bugs in Railmaster" is highly irresponsible and would put people off RailMaster, were we not able to redress the balance.To clarify: RailMaster will support EVERY port on EVERY decoder present on a layout, for points and signals.This unfounded paragraph demonstrates where a lack of knowledge, followed by irresponsible hearsay and reporting can cause people to think the statement is true. It is emphatically not true.Setting up and controlling multi-aspects signals in any model railway control system is probably one of the most complicated things a modeller will do. Signalling itself can be very complicated. We have tried to make the process as simple as possible by building in ready-made templates for signals from Train-tech and are looking to build others in from other manufacturers. Having said that, RailMaster allows you to control any other multi-aspect colour light signal on the market, connected to any NMRA compatible accessory decoder however you must know the port numbers and switching operations to set the lights correctly. If the documentation supplied with the signals is any good you should be able to work this out. Furthermore, using the numerous examples built into RailMaster it should not be too difficult to set up any make of signal linked to any make of accessory decoder.Please do not repeat irresponsible and reckless hearsay from third parties who clearly do not know what they are saying, or the consequences thereof.Regular visitors to this forum will know that we are working very hard to bring users a comprehensive, excellent value for money, yet easy to use computer control system for model railways and we can do without damaging remarks being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Dear HRMSThank you for your message. The details above were added to the forum by myself and were given to me by a third party company, the message along with additional details explaining the problems I am experiencing were included, innocently, as provided, as I search for help with CR Signals 3 Aspect signals with route indicator and the SC1 decoder. As the SC1 decoder is not yet in the list of signal decoders in RM it has been suggested that I should use the Lenz LS100 4 port decoder that is in the list in RM and it should work but, to date, that is not the case. I am looking for help with this matter, I would agree many 3rd party companies, as you say, have lack knowledge on the workings in RM. I can therefore only add on the forum my situation and information received along with anything I have tried and what works and what doesn't work, in the hope that someone can help me set up the signals and get them to work correctly. You say... RailMaster allows you to control any other multi-aspect colour light signal on the market, connected to any NMRA compatible accessory decoder however you must know the port numbers and switching operations to set the lights correctly. If the documentation supplied with the signals is any good you should be able to work this out. So the signals should work, connected to any NMRA compatible accessory decoder. But, I am just a customer with little knowledge in these matters. RM Pro is excellent software, I can see how you have simplified many areas to reach a larger customer base, I have given endless praise for the product on this forum but, by simplifying many areas you are encouraging people to enter new areas, unfamiliar territory, exciting as it all is, you are going to get people who need help at certain stages, like me now, and I am shouting for HELP!!!If you would like me to email you again please say so. I can provide details of every email, to and from the supplier, trying to get the signals to work..PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornbyRailMasterSupport Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 In order to be able to help you with this it would be best if we knew how the manufacturer's signals work and to achieve this the best thing would be for us to have samples here.If you would ask the supplier of your signals (we have not heard of them before) to contact us directly then perhaps we can obtain the signals and investigate your issue for you.As far as we are aware, colour light signals come in two types: 1) just the signal with wires coming out of it that need to be connected to an accessory decoder and 2) signals with decoders already built in, like those from Train-tech.Within RailMaster's signal parameters you can set the port number of a decoder (switching left or right/red or green) to switch between, say, red and green on your signal (following the manufacturers guidelines regarding polarity, wiring and power consumption). If you have a 3 or 4 aspect signal you can then use another port (next consecutive) on your accessory decoder to switch between, say, the single and double yellow aspects of a 4-aspect signal. You may need to experiment until you get it right and the tools are built into RailMaster to let you do this.We cannot guide you on the particular signal and accessory decoder you are using because we do not have that set-up here, however RailMaster allows signal operation at port level and therefore you must be able to switch any signal available with any accessory decoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi PJ,If you are stuck for ideas, may I suggest the following...I think somewhere in this thread you have mentioned the signal's base address is 174 ?Ok, instead of trying to set up a single icon on your layout, how about trying three icons, all configured simply as a two-aspect signal connected to a Hornby R8247 accessory decoder. Give them the addresses 174, 175 and 176. Don't worry about what it looks like on the layout diagram, but hopefully using icon 174 will switch the signal between red and green, 175 will switch the yellow on and off, and 176 will switch the feather on and off.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi RayThanks for your help and suggestions.The company has sort of suggested similar to what you say as a way round it but, I am not looking for a way round it, I need 3 aspect with feather to work on the layout.I have almost 3 dozen signals on the layout, when one signal affects another it is important they look right.The outer loop is the high speed line and has 4 aspect signals, mainly one way but allowing for two way as necessary.The inner loops will be slower lines, 2 ways, and have 3 aspect signals, each one will change the previous one as a trains carriages pass they need to be in harmony, working and visually or the head will go round instead of the trains ;-)I must keep trying until I get them to work correctly. I have the signals, I have the LS100 decoders which are all compliant, this decoder is in the RM list of signal decoders. Trouble is, it is new territory for me so at this stage I haven't a clue with this part. Setting them up when working, getting points and othter signals to work no problem it is just the set up stage I am struggling with.Thanks again Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hello HRMSI will copy your message and email it to CR Signals for the signals themselves and to Signalist for the SC1 decoderThank yoouPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 PJ,I wasn't suggesting this as a final solution by any means, but if you could try it then post the results, someone may be able to work out logically what's going on, and suggest an alternative.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi RaySignalist also suggested 3 signals, at first I thought it was a way round the issue not a solution.He has suggested I do so and use the Lenz LS100 decoder which they recommend for the CR Signals signal so I thought, as he is being so helpful, I must continue down that route. I can set up another test layout if you wish and set up the same with the Hornby decoder as you are being very helpful too but don't want to over lap things.I have set up a test layout, Testing Lenz 100. I have put a small oval on it and 3x 2 aspect signals0173, 0174 & 0175Set to A, decoder port #, decoder type, Clear and set Seq, Port, Setting for each to1 - 0173 - Red2 - 0173 - GreenThen repeated with next port number.Then saved the file.At present nothing happens to the actual 3 aspect signal with route indicator when I press red or green on any signal.I may have to write the 0173 address to the decoder again?Some CV's were changed also, I may have to CV8=8 to reset first?I have written to Signalist againPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi PJ,Yes, try CV8 = 8Has it been suggested to set CV38 = 9 ?According to the manual, this configures for 2 x 3-aspect with feather.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_harman Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 HiI thought it might be helpful for those of you that are trying to help with this issue to post a few details of how the Signalist SC1 signal decoder works. There is quite a bit of information on the Signalist website that might be useful if I have not included everything you need here.The SC1 can be configured for a vast range of different signal types (using CV38) and can be configured for using the NMRA signal protocol (extended accessory packets) as well as for turnout protocol (standard accessory packets). The best method to use for signals is the extended accessory packets because each signal can occupy just one or two addresses regardless of how complex it is and configuration in the application is simple and minimal, but as far as I can tell this is not supported in either Railmaster or on Hornby command stations so I skip it will explain the standard accessory packet method.When using the standard accessory packets the 3-aspect and 4-aspect signals use two accessory addresses (point addresses) in a truth table where both addresses have to be set to define the aspect.Aspect Addr.1 Addr.2Red N NGreen R NYellow N RDouble Yellow R RWhere N is the point set straight and R is the point set to diverging. If the signal does not have double yellow single yellow will be displayed in its place.When a signal has feathers they will use the next two addresses (only one address for a single feather) using the following table:-Route Addr.3 Addr.4 none N N 1 R N 2 N R 3 R RIt is quite easy to set addresses 3 (and 4) when the points are set as part of routes to get the SC1 to display the correct feather automatically. The signal control system just has to be configured to set the two addresses for each aspect. In PJs case addresses 1-3 will be 173-175 (starting on a block of four boundary as recommended in the Railmaster manual) with 173 and 174 controlling the aspect and 175 controlling the single feather.I hope that this is useful and makes things clear.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hello HRMSI have spoken with Paul at Signalist ref. their SC1 decoder and they are happy to send one to youI have also emailed Paul at CR Signals regarding their signals and am waiting a reply.Paul from Signalist has asked for a contact name and address to send the item to. It is 20.00 hrs, I will send an email to you in the next 5 minutes from PJ_modeltrains if you could reply to the email I will forward the address to Signalist.You may not have heard of CR Signals but as people find their signals, especially shunt/sidings signals, I am sure more people will want them. The company was recommended to me from a friend on RMweb forum.Thank youPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hello RayI have written 8 to CV8 to resetThen as requested I have written CV38 = 9 to configure as you say for 2 x 3 aspect with featherCV1 = 46 this was something to do with calling 0173PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Paul at Signalist has been very helpful and we have the lights on the signal working for 3x 2 aspect signals as he and Ray have suggested.Now to get them to work in the right order, Paul doesn't have RM Pro so hopefully a little help from some friends would be fantastic ;o)Here is my current set up and signal sequenceIN RM1 = 0173 = green2 = 0173 = red 1 = 0174 = green2 = 0174 = red 1 = 175 = green2 = 175 = red SIGNAL 0173Click red = redClick green = green(Feather on for both) SIGNAL 0174Click red = yellow and green (No feather)Click green = green and feather SIGNAL 0175Click red = Nothing?Click green = Nothing? Has anyone experienced setting these to get the sequence right so that I can then, hopefully set up a 3 aspect with feather instead of the 3 x 2 aspect which are here to help work it out. Thank you in advance, I will alter anything suggested and try it and supply feed back but am closing for tonight, my wife thinks she is a widow. Thank you everyone PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi PJ,Can I check a couple of things with you ? First, I am looking at Figure 4 on page 8 of the manual. Are you absolutely sure you have the wires connected as shown ?Secondly, can you verify CV1 = 46 - are you sure about this ?Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 PJ and Ray, in your latest posts, have you taken into account what Paul H, who I assume is the Signalist man, has said in his post on the previous page?HRMS, given the capability of accessory decoders such as the SC1, and that can be seen by downloading the manual from the Signalist website, are there any plans to allow for reading and writing of accessory decoder CVs? Or is this already possible and we just don't know? I realise from Paul's post that you can use the SC1 without the need to change CVs, but it would seem far more efficient and versatile if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idlemarvel Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Presumably you can just treat the accessory decoder as a loco then you can write any CV. Whether you can read or not this way I don't know as I don't have an SC1, but there are various articles on how to read CVs from "inert" decoders like you find in trailer cars where the decoder is just used for lighting. This is not ideal I know but in the interest of progress etc. In the meantime I see fishy you have raised a request for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Good morning PJ,I've been staring at the diagram on page 8 of the manual (fig 4) and I don't think it is clear enough as to which terminal the grey wire from the feather should be connected. Underneath the diagram it says:"If the feathers have a separate common lamp connection it should be connected to terminal D". This implies that D should NOT be used for the grey wire, and that the grey wire should be in terminal E.If I am right, it might explain why address 175 doesn't currently change the feather.Also, what aspect does the signal show before you have clicked any icons? If it is completely off (no lights) try setting CV37 = 128. I think this should set it initially to red, no feather.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Good morning gentlemenI have not had a good night for various reasons and just got up and seen the messages here.Firstly, I will give a full update after Formula 1, Russia, starting 11am. Sorry trains are here all the time F1 is only on certain times, certain weeks, I know you understand ;o)Ray, yes CV1 = 46 but I have also received a message from Paul Harman at Signalist which states...That test where you are seeing green and yellow on together indicates that CV38 has not been set to 9 (probably still at the default), and it confirms that the address in CV1, CV9 and CV29 is set correctly to 173. If you can just try setting CV38=9 again on the program track (no need to set CV8 or use the jumper) I think that the SC1 will be configured correctly ready for the guys to sort out the settings. Encouraging news. I will write the CV in question later and update on here. I think part of the problem I have experienced was not disconnecting the SC1 when adding/removing the jumper, as Paul confirmed last night... To use the jumper to program the address you need to do the following:- 1. Disconnect the SC1 from the track.2. Fit the jumper.3. Connect the SC1 to the track.4. Operate signal 173 to red and green.5. Disconnect the SC1 from the track.6. Remove the jumper.7. Reconnect the SC1 to the track.8. The signal should then respond to addresses 173, 174 and 175. I am confident, following Paul's email and getting a little rearer with the signal lighting though not in the right sequence, I will write the CV after F1, thank you everyone for your help. What Paul cannot do however is look into the sequences and test them as he does not have RM Pro to do so. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi PJ,Just a reminder to have signal 173 on the layout diagram showing green before you get to step 4 of Paul's instructions. Did you read my earlier post?Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi Ray3-aspect with single feather Page 9 Fig 4 wiring is as followsA - RedB - GreenC - YellowD - Grey on diagram, actually whiteK - common cathode wireFirst I will write the CV38=9 as Paul from Signalist suggests then see what order the lights show, we can soon move D to E if needs be.PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi FishyI can write CV's to the SC1 but not read them.When I write them is goes through the process as expected but throws up an error at the end for reasons Ray mentioned. But, as confirmed by Paul from Signalist, if the signals are attached to the SC1, which they are, and they flash when writing the CV, even though the error shows at the end of writing the CV, it has been written to the SC1Some CV's had to be changed for the 3 aspect with feather signal, I have done these as requested by Signalist. Although I still have one to re-write which I will do shortly.PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi idlemarvelThis is what threw me at the beginnng, I was looking to read and write CV's from the Program Accessories Decoder section.Yes, you read from the loco settings, from PROG as with a train, just choose an address not in use to bring up the list of loco CV's, enter new values and write them back.PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi Ray3 x 2 Apect signals set up 0173, 0174 & 0175In RailMaster I have set up a new file, a small oval and the 3 x 2 aspect signalsAll are showing the green light.I will now re-write CV38 = 9Back shortlyPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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