Yelrow Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 hi, i was so impressed that my coach lights would not turn off on DCC, that i bought some DIY, kits, from firm in march. Instructions say remove body, remove bogies, then screw little bronze strips equally between axles. All this is fine. My question is, will they work with plastic wheels. or do i have to change to metal ones. Its a great kit, and even i can follow instructions, but.......... john
walkingthedog Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 No they won't work with plastic wheels if they are drawing current from the track John.
RDS Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 ... i was so impressed that my coach lights would not turn off on DCC ... John I guess you don't mean you were impressed that your coach lights would not turn off on DCC! Presumably, the only reason that little bronze strips would be fitted equally between the axles is so that they could rub against the wheels, in which the wheels need to be metal.
Yelrow Posted October 25, 2014 Author Posted October 25, 2014 thanks, guys, that was my impression, although, nothing in instructions. Fortunately, i have metal wheels on my 3 rail coaches, that should fit. I did mean i was so impressed that they would not turn off. i was impressed that nobody had thought when making them. how annoying it would be. Fine on DC. Can you buy DCC only lighted coaches. john
walkingthedog Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 I thought the idea with lights in DCC coaches was that they didn't turn off when the train stopped in a station as they incorrectly do with DC. A decoder in the coach or coaches allows you to switch them on or off as required.
Yelrow Posted October 25, 2014 Author Posted October 25, 2014 do you think i am made of money WTD,, i am happy that they stay on in staions, but most of my layout is not in stations. Thats why i am fitting my own lights, i cant afford all these decoder things. john
walkingthedog Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 I was just saying that was the reason they stay on. If the coaches are in a siding isolate the power to the siding then the lights will go out, total cost a small switch. Bet that costs less and is easier than fitting lights yourself.
Fishmanoz Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 In general, coach lights do not need decoders whether operating DC or DCC. Assuming kits work the same way as RTR lighted Pulmans, they pick up power from the axles on the bogies, not the wheels. The bogies are made with an insulated bush metal wheel on one side and uninsulated on the other. Given the bogies face opposite ways at each end, they pick up from one rail at one end and the other rail at the other, both via the uninsulated wheel. Because DCC has power to the track all of the time, the lights are on all the time. With DC, only on when the train is running. Unless you install a switch, or you could use a decoder for DCC but would be a peanut/steamroller solution.
LCDR Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Fortunately, i have metal wheels on my 3 rail coaches, that should fit. WHOA! If your three rail coaches are Hornby Dublo then they will not only not work they could damage your power systems. Three rail rolling stock with metal wheels usually has NO insulation at all. You are better to buy the proper Hornby spare part metal coach wheels which have insulation on both sides.
Yelrow Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 Lc&DR, hi, thanks, yes. i knew about that. i was going to fit to try my bogie, with 3 rail wheels to test that it worked, prior to biting the bullet for proper wheels. This morning, however, having applied a magnet to my plastic wheels, i found they were metal, phew, more cash saved. Thanks again for jumping in, Having a big working 3 rail layout. i need all my 3 rail wheels, but thought it would be a way of testing lights. john
LCDR Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Lc&DR, hi, thanks, yes. i knew about that. i was going to fit to try my bogie, with 3 rail wheels to test that it worked, prior to biting the bullet for proper wheels. This morning, however, having applied a magnet to my plastic wheels, i found they were metal, phew, more cash saved. Thanks again for jumping in, Having a big working 3 rail layout. i need all my 3 rail wheels, but thought it would be a way of testing lights. john Whew, you had me worried for a moment. I learned that two rail and Hornby Dublo before 1958 don't mix. The hard way in 1956.
VESPA Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 The lighting kits will be made for two rail wheelsets in which one wheel or both will be insulated from the axle. DO NOT use on DUBLO three rail wheelsets.
Yelrow Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 OK, all you experienced guys. Coach lights fitted, copper springy bits under the axles, so they touch, and can be heard scraping, and when touching wires on both bogies, from 12 volt supply to both axles, lights are magnificent. Put it on dcc track, nothing, run it behind loco on dc track, nothing. WHY. Axles are metal, have checked with magnet. What is my deliberate mistake john. PS, what a soldering job, was very proud till this point john
walkingthedog Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Are the wheels isolated from the axle. One side will have to be or you will have a short circuit. Are the copper wipers supposed to pick up power from each side of the track?
Yelrow Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 wtd, you will need to put that in simple terms. Instructions show little copper strips , one under each bogie, with springy bits touching the axles. Surely if it works with 12 volt supply ok from controller that is ok, or would i not notice the short.Are you saying The copper springy bits, are fitted to same sides or different sides, you would know. i am just a banker
Yelrow Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 WTD, having just climbed 37 stairs and back, i have fitted copper strips to opposite sides of the coach. Should they both be on same side. john. Cant take a picture her indoors has comandered ipad. john
walkingthedog Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 Does it work when you apply the power to the wheels, axles or the copper wipers?
Yelrow Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 WTD, only axles, and copper wipers, tried, presumed wheels would work. Works a treat with supply to first 2, but not on track. Coach is FLYING SCOTSMAN, one of 3, john
walkingthedog Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 You need to pick up power from both rails. An electric plug with one pin won't work. It could be that each axle has one insulated wheel. If all the insulated wheels are on one side on the coach then only one wire will be getting power from one side of the track. On one bogie the wire should pick up from the left and on the other from the right. Try your 12 volt supply on the left wheels on one bogie ant the right wheels on the other.
poliss Posted October 26, 2014 Posted October 26, 2014 What lighting kit did you buy? Was it specifically for DCC or was it a DC lighting kit?
Yelrow Posted October 26, 2014 Author Posted October 26, 2014 What a good idea, thanks, will try tomorrow and report back, and i only have 5 more to do. Fascinating job, until the end, regards, john Just as wll your turntable is manual, as have a dcc motorised one coming. Imagine the wiring questions with that. john
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