BR Black and Pre Grouping Locos

[happybear]

I have just got into the hobby ,i was put off by the models being too toy like ,they are not now! Being a younger modeller i cannot remember BR steam but i am fed up with all the engines being mainly available in hideous BR black ,each to there own but i cannot understand why people want to model an era of decline and destruction.I love the pre grouping era 2 and i feel this is the best most interesting era to model as it represents the railways at there zenith.I have bought mainly bachmann models and loving the GC have spent alot.I want to know why Hornby dont go big on pre grouping especially rolling stock and why you propose an 19th century adams tank and paint it late BR colours !!!!

[PJ_model_trains]

Welcome happybear.

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You are spot on... 'model trains are more than toys' They are Big Boys toys ;o)

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The beauty of the hobby is you can do what you want and everyone's layout, them, style, etc will be different.

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Don't worry about others and what they do, do what you like. If you have multi region and like what you have that is all that matters. People will respect your choice and in return we respect theirs.

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Enjoy what is now a fantastic and growing hobby. If you like what you see know you will like what is coming.

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Exciting times ;-)

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PJ

[happybear]

Welcome happybear.

.

You are spot on... 'model trains are more than toys' They are Big Boys toys ;o)

.

The beauty of the hobby is you can do what you want and everyone's layout, them, style, etc will be different.

.

Don't worry about others and what they do, do what you like. If you have multi region and like what you have that is all that matters. People will respect your choice and in return we respect theirs.

.

Enjoy what is now a fantastic and growing hobby. If you like what you see know you will like what is coming.

.

Exciting times ;-)

.

PJ

 

I do respect others choices but i wonder why the era i model is neglected so badly when the other era models are at saturation point surely the real growth in the hobby is in pre grouping rolling stock and engines the variety is stunning and the potential huge.I am doing a WW1 layout and want to buy hornby products but my choice is limited and poor.Regrds HB

[walkingthedog]

Hi happybear, welcome. Why did you title your thread "Mr". Doesn't exactly describe what the thread is about.

 

I model 50/60's. I know it's mostly black locos but it does give the opportunity to run early diesels. I try to stick to this period as it stops me buying too many locos. The best thing to model is a heritage railway then you can run anything.

[walkingthedog]

Welcome happybear.

.

You are spot on... 'model trains are more than toys' They are Big Boys toys ;o)

.

The beauty of the hobby is you can do what you want and everyone's layout, them, style, etc will be different.

.

Don't worry about others and what they do, do what you like. If you have multi region and like what you have that is all that matters. People will respect your choice and in return we respect theirs.

.

Enjoy what is now a fantastic and growing hobby. If you like what you see know you will like what is coming.

.

Exciting times ;-)

.

PJ

 

 

I do respect others choices but i wonder why the era i model is neglected so badly when the other era models are at saturation point surely the real growth in the hobby is in pre grouping rolling stock and engines the variety is stunning and the potential huge.I am doing a WW1 layout and want to buy hornby products but my choice is limited and poor.Regrds HB

 

Don't just buy Hornby, if you do you'll miss out on lots of very good stuff.

[Fazy]

BR (mr) because I get to run most of the LMS. MR.LNWR. LT&SR. BR standard designs with some DMUs as I model Leicester 15c I can even use some LNER locomotives

Plus a lot of rolling stock is available.

And after bulding trying to line out a LNWR coach in original LNWR colours is a nightmare. So red will do me

[ModelerXYZ]

I model a fictional railway in a fictional place so I can make it all up as I go along.as long as the place looks almost believeable, it is good enough for me.

[rayarpino]

I also think that the black engines are those a large number of modellers can still actually remember. I also believe there are far fewer modellers who are prepared to weather the elaborate liveries of the pre-grouping era.

You'd have to be really getting on to have clear memories of pre-nationalization liveries and miraculously ancient to remember pre-grouping.

[Graskie]

My layout is supposed to represent 1950/early 1960's BR, hb. I was there at that time and I'm now 70 years old. I think the demand to cover the real railways from that time comes from us silver surfers. Even I never experienced pre BR railways, so I'm not too bothered about including that era. Anyway, there were still loads of coloured locos about even in BR times, green, lined green, lined crimson lake, red, maroon, so I don't entirely agree with your claim that they were all black (or even lined black as well).

[Alessio]

I think there's a few reasons why Hornby don't go too near the pre-grouping stuff:

 

- There were so many pre-grouping companies. Which ones should they do, which shouldn't they? I personally would love to see some L&YR locos. There will be many who'll want GNR, NER, LNWR, LBSCR, GER, S&D etc etc.

 

- If you make the locos, you'll get demand to make the stock to go with them. If Hornby produce the GNR Stirling Single, people will want matching coaches. If they produce a Lancashire and Yorkshire goods loco, people will want appropriate wagons for the era. Even just taking this and the point above, that could potentially create huge demand for products that Hornby simply couldn't fulfil.

 

- How far back do they go? Currently the majority of their stuff is late 1920s or later. Do they start with going back as 1900? 1890?

 

- With pre-grouping companies being far more region-specific than the big four, there's less demand for each individual one. If you're an LNER fan, that covers East Anglia, London and the whole of the ECML to Edinburgh. LMS fans have London, the Midlands, the North West and Scotland. The individual companies covered much smaller, more specific geographical areas and so I imagine each one appeals only to a smaller demographic. For example, I like the LMS as I like Stanier's locos but I've no interest in the railway companies that operated in the midlands in the early 1900s. Likewise, I'm interested in Yorkshire under the LNER but not East Anglia.

 

 

 

Not trying to shoot you down and I may be mistaken but this is how I see it. The current system appeals to the large majority of modellers and at the end of the day, whilst they try to cater for everyone, Hornby has to make money at the end of the day or they can't continue.

[Buz]

Hi happybear

 

Over the years model standards have changed but they have always been a gentlemans toy, lets face it the learned gentleman could not be seen to be playing with toys.

 

As a very general rule we want to model the trains of our youth there are the odd exeptions.

 

So those of us that want pre grouping locomotives etc only want the ones that survived into our youth by which time they where BR black or BR marked colours.

 

There is no one left who is old enough to want NB G&SW MR CR LBSC LSWR etc in those liveries

 

They do occasionaly come out as very anoying useless incomplete trains I want both ends of the train loco and van and whats in between not just odd bits but that is never going to happen.

 

The furthest we go back is the Big four the demand is already shifting away from the big four through natural causes.

 

In another 70 or so years the demand for BR black will go that is the way of things.

 

Steam engines are black plain or lined only the top link passanger locomotives had coloured liveries.

 

So most of the loco's on a steam era layout should be Black.

 

I only want pre grouping stock because that's what should be on my layout but I want it in BR or LNER colours so eventualy I will have to make it myself "odd exeption" and yes my steam engines are black as they should be

 

I hope one day to have the pre grouping stock to cover early middle and end of my railway I also have modern era for my railway it's called a bus and I don't need a layout for that.

 

regards John

[Fazy]

I am not odd! :) I was born in the 70's and can only remember the BR blue. But would not want to model it. You think the end of steam is bad for the run down look. Being a kid looking at dirty blue boxes pulling worn out wagons or dirty blue gray coaches in and out of drity run down worn out stations.the government did not care for the railways back then and thought it had had its day the car was king. No way do I want to model that. Long live steam and modelling it I say.

[gilbo2]

I'm not a fan of the black liveries either, especially when it comes to the "why on earth did you by that!" stakes, if you know what I mean ;-)

 

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You cannot win though, if the prototype like the 2-10-0 Franco Crosti was only in black(?), Hornby cannot do anything else without criticism?

 

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Looking at yesterdays announcement on the Adams Radial, looking at the two images I've seen so far, I know which one "looks" more impressive (to me anyway);

 

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http://alturl.com/zst7j

 

http://alturl.com/2cm8r

[Buz]

I'm not a fan of the black liveries either, especially when it comes to the "why on earth did you by that!" stakes, if you know what I mean ;-)

 

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You cannot win though, if the prototype like the 2-10-0 Franco Crosti was only in black(?), Hornby cannot do anything else without criticism?

 

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Looking at yesterdays announcement on the Adams Radial, looking at the two images I've seen so far, I know which one "looks" more impressive (to me anyway);

 

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http://alturl.com/zst7j

 

http://alturl.com/2cm8r

hi

I like the green one but would only buy it if I could not get a black one.

 

The green looks impressive and nice the black allowes general use.

 

As pointed out above manufacturing acuracy is everything these days you can't paint it blue lined out in white

 

If it was not, the days of Lord Westwood fictional livery loco's are well and truly gone

 

for anything except toys.

 

And even then the Thomas range from a childs perspective has to be as acurate as our models

 

You try telling a child Thomas is green or black and you will see exactly what I mean (take cover)

 

regards John

[gilbo2]

I don't know the history of the Adams Radial but guess originally it's livery was green, certainly not black? I agree though that the livery should be accurate to a period of time in its history.

 

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Could one of the reasons we are seeing so many black locos at the minute is that they do not need an additional painting process, i.e. its the natural colour of the base moulding? If so, then its keeping costs down.

 

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I keep thinking of Henry Ford, "you can have any colour as long as it's black" ;-)

[Buz]

I don't know the history of the Adams Radial but guess originally it's livery was green, certainly not black? I agree though that the livery should be accurate to a period of time in its history.

 

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Could one of the reasons we are seeing so many black locos at the minute is that they do not need an additional painting process, i.e. its the natural colour of the base moulding? If so, then its keeping costs down.

 

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I keep thinking of Henry Ford, "you can have any colour as long as it's black" ;-)

 

Don't quote me on this but I think these days they are moulded in the colour then painted printed decald etc to get the very high standard of finish we demand.

 

Well as long as its Blackberry Black that will be just fine thanks ;-).

 

regards John

[gilbo2]

What's wrong with Apple black ;-)

[walkingthedog]

I would say that most people model what they remember, that's why they have a model railway.

[Buz]

What's wrong with Apple black ;-)

I prefer blackberries ;-)

 

Seriously though Blackberry black is the name of the black paint that produced the best black liveries on steam loco's I have forgoten which pre grouping company used it but later on BR saw the wisdom of using it for black loco's it gives the best look.

 

That was before the shamefull neglect of the railways by government.

 

regards John

[walkingthedog]

Where has it been said the Adams is only going to be in BR black?

[VESPA]

I could suggest that you model around 1948-50 and use locos of the experimental colours eg King George V in BR blue or Walter K Whigam in BR experimental purple blue and other variations.

[gilbo2]

Buz - Oh right, Blackberry black is a rail name, I did not know that. I was in a different era altogther ;-)

[gilbo2]

Where has it been said the Adams is only going to be in BR black?

 

Hornby have them listed as;

 

 

 

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BR 4-4-2T '30584' Adams Radial BR (Early) - R3333

 

 

 

BR 4-4-2T '30584' Adams Radial BR (Late) - R3334

 

 

 

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The early / late BR reference with number 30584 would imply black?

 

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However, the green image published by Hornby is perhaps a sign of the LSWR livery at some point?

[walkingthedog]

Yes but that's just the first release. It doesn't say that's the only scheme. They don't usually release a new loco in lots of different colour schemes. Simple one first then the more complicated versions.

Look how FS and Tornado have changed over the years.

[Postman Prat]

You'd have to be really getting on to have clear memories of pre-nationalization liveries and miraculously ancient to remember pre-grouping.

Choose your words carefully, Rayarpino, LC&DR and I were both born in 1948. You may be interested to know that there were a (small) number of Pannier tanks with GWR on the side in the late 50s, early 60s. Also at least one GWR 3500 gal tender made it through to 1965 (at least).