Recording and playing sounds in RM

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi PG,  Those speakers should be fine though they are a bit big to be driven from a headphone output without an amp, overall size is 3 inches - also remember you have to hide them somewhere and additional cover such as a building will cause additional attenuation of the sound. I suggest you temporarilly link them up to try before doing anything permanent. I'd be interested to know how you get on with them as I haven't purchased my additional speakers yet.

 

Are you using the speakers as a stereo pair? If not and you want to switch speakers individually, then you would need 2 latching relays. It depends on how you want to use them.

 

Hi T

 

I think I have most of the items sorted now but, I am not happy with the speakers so will not buy anything yet until I find where I can get some speakers from.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Happy New Year to you

 

PJ

[96RAF]

Has anyone tried using a Mobile phone speaker?

I stripped a speaker out of an old Nokia and intend to try it in my small diesel shunter in lieu of a sugar cube speaker.

I doubt the output would be good enough for layout broadcast purposes Either in quality or volume.

as said earlier I use redundant car hands free speakers, about 100x75x75mm on a pivot bracket.

[RDS]

Hi RAF96

I have a Nokia N8 and the sound quality is loud and excellent for the size of the speaker.  The enclosure makes a lot of difference though, so if I use one in say a station, I will reconstruct the enclosure as close as possible to what it was when in the phone (or even just use phone enclosure parts).

[96RAF]

Hi RAF96

I have a Nokia N8 and the sound quality is loud and excellent for the size of the speaker.  The enclosure makes a lot of difference though, so if I use one in say a station, I will reconstruct the enclosure as close as possible to what it was when in the phone (or even just use phone enclosure parts).

 

Agreed it's all down to the enclosure.

I have tried a loco sound speaker face up into a diesel loco body with the battery box/fuel tank as the sealed enclosure and then tried the speaker face down into the same box with holes drilled into the bottom to let the sound out and the difference is noticeable.

A closed back speaker playing into a big front cavity sure beats an open back speaker playing into a smaller box with holes.

if you look at TTS speakers they have an enclosed capsule over the speaker which then plays through holes in the tender chassis to the greater layout.

I then whipped out a TTS decoder & speaker and tried it in a diesel as above but with its enclosure in the speaker face down scenario and the effect was a big improvement over the open back installation. Face up with enclosure was not much different to the  no enclosure installation.

it will be interesting to see what the TTS diesels are like.

[PJ_model_trains]

 

My next sound project is to mount a seperate set of speakers into the main station area of the layout and fit a relay so I can switch over to them via RM and play stationery type sounds.

 

Can this be done in Rm? Sound to each speaker switchable?

 

Or would it be fed to a wire from computer, switchable to left or right speaker?

 

PJ

Hi PJ,

I'm currently feeding my stereo speakers using one of these from Maplin. This is plugged into the 3.5mm headphone socket on my laptop. I plan to use a latching relay. and feed the two coils from the left/right ouputs of a pulsed output (solenoid) accessory decoder. The two relay double pole outputs will switch the output from the amp from one set of speakers to the other.

 

I can post a wiring diagram if it would make more sense?

Hello T

 

I have not found any suitable speakers so, come back to the emplifier with speakers which seems good value.

 

Will it work from my DCC Bus power?

 

Would I be wise to get one of these

Nikkai Connect! 3.5mm Stereo to 2 Mono Splitter

Take of the mono end and solder to the amplier connections

 

I would get a latching relay that makes sense

 

Would I need anything else

 

 

PJ 

[PJ_model_trains]

 

My next sound project is to mount a seperate set of speakers into the main station area of the layout and fit a relay so I can switch over to them via RM and play stationery type sounds.

 

Can this be done in Rm? Sound to each speaker switchable?

 

Or would it be fed to a wire from computer, switchable to left or right speaker?

 

PJ

Hi PJ,

I'm currently feeding my stereo speakers using one of these from Maplin. This is plugged into the 3.5mm headphone socket on my laptop. I plan to use a latching relay. and feed the two coils from the left/right ouputs of a pulsed output (solenoid) accessory decoder. The two relay double pole outputs will switch the output from the amp from one set of speakers to the other.

 

I can post a wiring diagram if it would make more sense?

Hello T

 

I have not found any suitable speakers so, come back to the emplifier with speakers which seems good value.

 

Will it work from my DCC Bus power?

 

Would I be wise to get one of these

Nikkai Connect! 3.5mm Stereo to 2 Mono Splitter

Take of the mono end and solder to the amplier connections

 

I would get a latching relay that makes sense

 

Would I need anything else

 

 

PJ 

 

Looking at it again I don't think I need that also so it does make it good value.

 

The amplifier comes with 2 speakers but can cope with stereo, did you manage to find additional speakers?

 

PJ

[Teedoubleudee]

Hi PJ, not found speakers yet as been busy on other (non-modelling related) jobs. I've currently got my amp powered by a PP9 9v battery via an on/off switch. The kit comes with a PP9 battery connector. I will eventually power it via a proposed 9v mains adaptor which will also power all my lighting in buildings etc. I've done some experiments and 9v gives a decent level of lighting without driving the bulbs or leds too much, which should  help them last longer!. I'm currently building a Ratio goods shed and Metcalfe station building/platform and installing leds as I go. I've already completed the Metcalfe engine shed and GWR signal box.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi PJ, not found speakers yet as been busy on other (non-modelling related) jobs. I've currently got my amp powered by a PP9 9v battery via an on/off switch. The kit comes with a PP9 battery connector. I will eventually power it via a proposed 9v mains adaptor which will also power all my lighting in buildings etc. I've done some experiments and 9v gives a decent level of lighting without driving the bulbs or leds too much, which should  help them last longer!. I'm currently building a Ratio goods shed and Metcalfe station building/platform and installing leds as I go. I've already completed the Metcalfe engine shed and GWR signal box.

 

Hi T

 

I think it says it will work on a couple to 16v, so should work with 12v DCC. Is there a item on it to change the various voltage options.

 

I also have lighting for street and cars plus wires in to light up statiions late. They work on a 12v AC adaptor, could it work from that? 

 

This is a totally new area for me

 

PJ

[Teedoubleudee]

Hi PJ, not found speakers yet as been busy on other (non-modelling related) jobs. I've currently got my amp powered by a PP9 9v battery via an on/off switch. The kit comes with a PP9 battery connector. I will eventually power it via a proposed 9v mains adaptor which will also power all my lighting in buildings etc. I've done some experiments and 9v gives a decent level of lighting without driving the bulbs or leds too much, which should  help them last longer!. I'm currently building a Ratio goods shed and Metcalfe station building/platform and installing leds as I go. I've already completed the Metcalfe engine shed and GWR signal box.

 

Hi T

 

I think it says it will work on a couple to 16v, so should work with 12v DCC. Is there a item on it to change the various voltage options.

 

I also have lighting for street and cars plus wires in to light up statiions late. They work on a 12v AC adaptor, could it work from that? 

 

This is a totally new area for me

 

PJ

First of all I need to apologise - I meant of course the PP3 9v battery and not PP9. PP3s are the squar(ish) type you put in your smoke alarms.

I've just dug out the instructions for the Kitronics kit and it is clearly designed to run off a 9v DC source (hence the PP3 connector provided). There is no provision to aldjust the input power supply so I would be very wary of connecting to anything other than a PP3 or equivalent adaptor.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi T

 

Couldn't look before I was on tablet and page was open on laptop!

 

I have just had a look it says...

• Pre-populated PCB
• Output power at 9V is 1W per speaker
• Supply voltage from 2 to 15 volts

And... The stereo amplifier kit is supplied with all the resistors, volume control, capacitors, power switch & IC holder fitted. You just need to finish it by connecting the audio lead, speakers & power clip to the board.

So it has resistors for various voltages

.

Plus... It can be powered by a batteries connected to the PP3 clip or a DC power module can be plugged in when the batteries automatically disconnect and the power supply is used. 

So 12v DC should be OK

.

So I think I shoud be ok to solder to my DCC Bus

.

I notive it is...  Output power at 9V is 1W per speaker but looking at it I think the resistor must be built in the board for this.

.

PJ

[Teedoubleudee]

Hi T

 

Couldn't look before I was on tablet and page was open on laptop!

 

I have just had a look it says...

• Pre-populated PCB
• Output power at 9V is 1W per speaker
• Supply voltage from 2 to 15 volts

And... The stereo amplifier kit is supplied with all the resistors, volume control, capacitors, power switch & IC holder fitted. You just need to finish it by connecting the audio lead, speakers & power clip to the board.

So it has resistors for various voltages

.

Plus... It can be powered by a batteries connected to the PP3 clip or a DC power module can be plugged in when the batteries automatically disconnect and the power supply is used. 

So 12v DC should be OK

.

So I think I shoud be ok to solder to my DCC Bus

.

I notive it is...  Output power at 9V is 1W per speaker but looking at it I think the resistor must be built in the board for this.

.

PJ

Hi again PJ. You are probably right, I am only going off the instructions that came with it and it doesn't mention 9-15 volts input in those.

However, regarding your intention to connect it to the DCC bus, I still have reservations as this is not technically a Direct Current supply, it is pulsed DC, not smooth, and though OK for a lamp or two, I'm not sure how a stero amplifier would re-act. I'd like someone else with better knowledge than me to jump in here but in the mean time have a look at THIS link from the excellent Brian Lambert site.

[Teedoubleudee]

Hi PJ,

I've just checked again and realised that the link I gave you originally is NOT the kit I actually bought which is THIS one. My one does not have a volume control (I use the laptop volume). Both kits do indeed say 2-15 volts input so you are quite correct regarding that. Apologies for my faux par ;-)

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi PJ,

I've just checked again and realised that the link I gave you originally is NOT the kit I actually bought which is THIS one. My one does not have a volume control (I use the laptop volume). Both kits do indeed say 2-15 volts input so you are quite correct regarding that. Apologies for my faux par ;-)

 

Hi

No problem, no need to apologise either. I am greatful for your help so far.

Although good value compared to other items I looked at and a good size, I think I will hang on and see if anyone else has any comments.

Thanks again

PJ

[37lover]

PJ,

Apologies because I haven't followed the detail in this thread; you are asking if okay to connect to the DCC bus and then saying a 12 volt DC connection is needed. I thought the DCC bus was 16VAC?

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ,

Apologies because I haven't followed the detail in this thread; you are asking if okay to connect to the DCC bus and then saying a 12 volt DC connection is needed. I thought the DCC bus was 16VAC?

Hi

Many thanks no need to apologise.  

I emailed the company yesterday to find out if it is AC or DC, reply expected within 3 working days.

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

If they can only operate on DC, then you certainly can't connect directly to the DCC track.  You would have to rectify the DCC into DC first.  Simple little Circuit to incorporate to do that, two diodes and a capacitor are the minimum needed (in fact 1 diode and a capacitor is possible), but unlike your bus terminator, all 3 of these components have to go in the correct way round, not just in the right spot.

[PJ_model_trains]

If they can only operate on DC, then you certainly can't connect directly to the DCC track.  You would have to rectify the DCC into DC first.  Simple little Circuit to incorporate to do that, two diodes and a capacitor are the minimum needed (in fact 1 diode and a capacitor is possible), but unlike your bus terminator, all 3 of these components have to go in the correct way round, not just in the right spot.

 

Hi Fishy

 

Do you want to confirm more or have a link I can look up so that I can consider the right items if needed.

 

I have emailed Maplins and am waiting a reply.

 

I am not however sure it wise to add to the DCC Bus, I have tried to keep my DCC to trains, train sounds, points and signals and maybe LD depending how things show up.

 

That was why I did all the street car and station lighting on a separate system.

 

I am just looking for a suitable system to add sound under various stations or in station buildings. So they need to be 'small speakers' but have enough humph so hear them (Wattage) and preferably control through RM.

 

PJ

[Teedoubleudee]

If they can only operate on DC, then you certainly can't connect directly to the DCC track.  You would have to rectify the DCC into DC first.  Simple little Circuit to incorporate to do that, two diodes and a capacitor are the minimum needed (in fact 1 diode and a capacitor is possible), but unlike your bus terminator, all 3 of these components have to go in the correct way round, not just in the right spot.

 

Hi Fishy

 

Do you want to confirm more or have a link I can look up so that I can consider the right items if needed.

 

I have emailed Maplins and am waiting a reply.

 

I am not however sure it wise to add to the DCC Bus, I have tried to keep my DCC to trains, train sounds, points and signals and maybe LD depending how things show up.

 

That was why I did all the street car and station lighting on a separate system.

 

I am just looking for a suitable system to add sound under various stations or in station buildings. So they need to be 'small speakers' but have enough humph so hear them (Wattage) and preferably control through RM.

 

PJ

PJ, Why don't you connect the stereo amp to the same supply as your lighting as I intend to do? As you said, it can cope with 2-15volts DC.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi T

The adapter fro the lighting is AC not DC

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

Try googling DC rectifier circuits PJ and you'll get more than you can jump over.  The Dummies site has the basics.  Full wave would be better then half wave but don't think you need to go to a full bridge.

[Teedoubleudee]

If they can only operate on DC, then you certainly can't connect directly to the DCC track.  You would have to rectify the DCC into DC first.  Simple little Circuit to incorporate to do that, two diodes and a capacitor are the minimum needed (in fact 1 diode and a capacitor is possible), but unlike your bus terminator, all 3 of these components have to go in the correct way round, not just in the right spot.

 

Hi Fishy

 

Do you want to confirm more or have a link I can look up so that I can consider the right items if needed.

 

I have emailed Maplins and am waiting a reply.

 

I am not however sure it wise to add to the DCC Bus, I have tried to keep my DCC to trains, train sounds, points and signals and maybe LD depending how things show up.

 

That was why I did all the street car and station lighting on a separate system.

 

I am just looking for a suitable system to add sound under various stations or in station buildings. So they need to be 'small speakers' but have enough humph so hear them (Wattage) and preferably control through RM.

 

PJ

PJ, Why don't you connect the stereo amp to the same supply as your lighting as I intend to do? As you said, it can cope with 2-15volts DC.

OK mate, you must be running bulbs then, not LEDs. I have a mixture of both so sticking with DC. ;-)

 

[PJ_model_trains]

If they can only operate on DC, then you certainly can't connect directly to the DCC track.  You would have to rectify the DCC into DC first.  Simple little Circuit to incorporate to do that, two diodes and a capacitor are the minimum needed (in fact 1 diode and a capacitor is possible), but unlike your bus terminator, all 3 of these components have to go in the correct way round, not just in the right spot.

 

Hi Fishy

 

Do you want to confirm more or have a link I can look up so that I can consider the right items if needed.

 

I have emailed Maplins and am waiting a reply.

 

I am not however sure it wise to add to the DCC Bus, I have tried to keep my DCC to trains, train sounds, points and signals and maybe LD depending how things show up.

 

That was why I did all the street car and station lighting on a separate system.

 

I am just looking for a suitable system to add sound under various stations or in station buildings. So they need to be 'small speakers' but have enough humph so hear them (Wattage) and preferably control through RM.

 

PJ

PJ, Why don't you connect the stereo amp to the same supply as your lighting as I intend to do? As you said, it can cope with 2-15volts DC.

OK mate, you must be running bulbs then, not LEDs. I have a mixture of both so sticking with DC. ;-)

 

 

Hi T

 

Looking at the adapter it says

 

AC Adapter, model number, input 100-240v-1 5a, Output 12v 5A

Other than Caution... Attention... and China there is little else on it.

.

I said AC as it actually says AC on the adapter. Since your reply I have double checked with the supplier and it is a DC adapter.

 

Yes I am running various LED's, some with resistors to adjust the power supply.

.

So providing the 

Kitronik Deluxe Stereo Amplifier with 3.5mm Jack Lead Pre-built

from Maplins is DC I can power from that.

 

I am still waiting a reply from Maplins, they did say 3 working days which would be tomorrow night.

 

PJ

[Teedoubleudee]

If they can only operate on DC, then you certainly can't connect directly to the DCC track.  You would have to rectify the DCC into DC first.  Simple little Circuit to incorporate to do that, two diodes and a capacitor are the minimum needed (in fact 1 diode and a capacitor is possible), but unlike your bus terminator, all 3 of these components have to go in the correct way round, not just in the right spot.

 

Hi Fishy

 

Do you want to confirm more or have a link I can look up so that I can consider the right items if needed.

 

I have emailed Maplins and am waiting a reply.

 

I am not however sure it wise to add to the DCC Bus, I have tried to keep my DCC to trains, train sounds, points and signals and maybe LD depending how things show up.

 

That was why I did all the street car and station lighting on a separate system.

 

I am just looking for a suitable system to add sound under various stations or in station buildings. So they need to be 'small speakers' but have enough humph so hear them (Wattage) and preferably control through RM.

 

PJ

PJ, Why don't you connect the stereo amp to the same supply as your lighting as I intend to do? As you said, it can cope with 2-15volts DC.

OK mate, you must be running bulbs then, not LEDs. I have a mixture of both so sticking with DC. ;-)

 

 

Hi T

 

Looking at the adapter it says

 

AC Adapter, model number, input 100-240v-1 5a, Output 12v 5A

Other than Caution... Attention... and China there is little else on it.

.

I said AC as it actually says AC on the adapter. Since your reply I have double checked with the supplier and it is a DC adapter.

 

Yes I am running various LED's, some with resistors to adjust the power supply.

.

So providing the 

Kitronik Deluxe Stereo Amplifier with 3.5mm Jack Lead Pre-built

from Maplins is DC I can power from that.

 

I am still waiting a reply from Maplins, they did say 3 working days which would be tomorrow night.

 

PJ

Hi PJ, Adaptors don't always say AC or DC but use internationally recognised symbols instead. Off the top of my head these are represented as a wavy (sine wave) line for AC (the input) and a double line, top solid and bottom dashed to represent the DC output. The Kitronics amp will work superbly off of that so long as the overall current drain (including your lighting) doesn't exceed the current capability (in Amps) of your  adaptor. If I'm wrong pass me that hat! Ha Ha.

[PJ_model_trains]

 

Hi T

Looking at the adapter it says

AC Adapter, model number, input 100-240v-1 5a, Output 12v 5A

Other than Caution... Attention... and China there is little else on it.

.

I said AC as it actually says AC on the adapter. Since your reply I have double checked with the supplier and it is a DC adapter.

Yes I am running various LED's, some with resistors to adjust the power supply.

.

So providing the 

Kitronik Deluxe Stereo Amplifier with 3.5mm Jack Lead Pre-built

from Maplins is DC I can power from that.

I am still waiting a reply from Maplins, they did say 3 working days which would be tomorrow night.

PJ

 

Hi PJ, Adaptors don't always say AC or DC but use internationally recognised symbols instead. Off the top of my head these are represented as a wavy (sine wave) line for AC (the input) and a double line, top solid and bottom dashed to represent the DC output. The Kitronics amp will work superbly off of that so long as the overall current drain (including your lighting) doesn't exceed the current capability (in Amps) of your  adaptor. If I'm wrong pass me that hat! Ha Ha.

 

Hi T

 

It is 5 amp so providing I use a restrictor it should be alright.

 

I have 10 street lights, 12 car lights, 6 house lights. I will add to these probably several 24-30 station lights in time. I wouldn't think these would take it over 5amp but, I am not knowledgeable on these things as I have stated. The lights fitted and the ones to install will all be LED's.

 

I didn't realise you had an hat also.  ;o)

 

This is only for station announcements as similar. The Latching Relays would work from the DCC BUS

 

PJ

[Teedoubleudee]

Hi PJ,

To save further confusion, what is a restrictor - sounds like a snake to me!

5 amp should drive plenty of LEDS as well as amp. Have you got a multimeter? I find mine invaluable working with my MR. You can a decent one for a tenner see here and you can always use it round the house to check fuses etc. If you have one you can measure the current drain from your adaptor by putting it in series with the load.

Don't forget basic LEDs need a series resistor - by increasing the value of this slightly you can reduce the current required to light it and it might make it look better as the result will be dimmer and more realistic for a model.

When you say you are driving the latching relays from the DCC supply, I assume you mean via an accessory decoder as in my diagram?

Terry