Why are Hornby poor @ delivering Orders & why do they LIE to me???

[JJ73]

On the 2nd December I order a Train Controller & a Pullman Parlour Coach - a total of £40.27. I edvenually got it on the 15 December which meant I had to wait 13 days for it - I Did ring up a few times & was told I'll get it the next day but that NEVER happen :(

Another ORDER was made on the 10th December for a British Pullman Venice Orient Express Train Set & today is the 27th December & I am STILL waiting for it ARRRRRRRRRRR!!! Again I rang up about 3 times about it asking wherte is it & even asked to speak to a Manager & told A) b4 Xmas or the next few days & again THAT has NEVER HAPPEN - why am I getting this poor service from Hornby & WHY are they LIEING to me???

[VESPA]

I have to be honest here and say that Hornby has made enemies rather than friends with the recent sales. All very sad for a company with such standing. Maybe a new management review is needed and some weeding and garden leave applied.

[Cackey]

Here here!

I for one agree 100% with your statement Vespa.

Used to have a SS180 myself back in good old 1968.

Cheers

Cackey

[Yelrow]

NOW, my original post, despite being in my folder, does not show here, so i will repeat some of it. I dont accept hornby are at fault. They are totally in the hands of their delivery company, all of whom have publically admitted on line, and in national press, they cannot cope with level of demand. On xmas day, 2700 lost their jobs, with another one going to the wall. Demand, due to  internet, and xmas, has meant massive let down of all senders, by delivery firms. What can Hornby do about it, Nothing, all carriers are in the same boat. If John Lewis, Marks and Spencer, Amazon, all massive, cant get  an assurance of delivery times, what chance have smaller firms got. The original poster refers to management, problems, it was not, i Was  Sales Manager, with National Carriers, and British Rail, and these big parcels contracts, are not price driven, but on reliable information of delivery times given by the carrier. It is OUR fault, as much as anybodys, for  overburdening a delivery network, not designed for this type of volume. Of course they are going to give hornby projected delivery dates, beliving, in good faith, they can be met. The solution, your not going to like it, Fully tracked  parcels, at  all times, with commenserate high  rates. Will they arrive, yes, do you want to pay for this type of service no.  UPS,Federal Express, TNT, will all do the job, but nobody, including Hornby, will  want to pass on these prices to the customer. I have just had a tracked parcel from uk to France, small box, fully tracked, delivery exactly when advised, cost, £15.99. john

[PJ_model_trains]

NOW, my original post, despite being in my folder, does not show here, so i will repeat some of it. I dont accept hornby are at fault. They are totally in the hands of their delivery company, all of whom have publically admitted on line, and in national press, they cannot cope with level of demand. On xmas day, 2700 lost their jobs, with another one going to the wall. Demand, due to  internet, and xmas, has meant massive let down of all senders, by delivery firms. What can Hornby do about it, Nothing, all carriers are in the same boat. If John Lewis, Marks and Spencer, Amazon, all massive, cant get  an assurance of delivery times, what chance have smaller firms got. The original poster refers to management, problems, it was not, i Was  Sales Manager, with National Carriers, and British Rail, and these big parcels contracts, are not price driven, but on reliable information of delivery times given by the carrier. It is OUR fault, as much as anybodys, for  overburdening a delivery network, not designed for this type of volume. Of course they are going to give hornby projected delivery dates, beliving, in good faith, they can be met. The solution, your not going to like it, Fully tracked  parcels, at  all times, with commenserate high  rates. Will they arrive, yes, do you want to pay for this type of service no.  UPS,Federal Express, TNT, will all do the job, but nobody, including Hornby, will  want to pass on these prices to the customer. I have just had a tracked parcel from uk to France, small box, fully tracked, delivery exactly when advised, cost, £15.99. john

 

Hello John

 

I can only agree in part with what you have said, what I say is not critism though, it is just a bit bigger picture.

 

Is it Hornby's fault parcels have not been receieved before Christmas? Yes but only in part.

 

Is it the couriers fault? Yes but only in part?

 

Is it the customers fault? No they purchased in good faith they would receive their items before Christmas.

 

So whose fault is it? It is, I feel, all of the above, plus the media. The media hypes up the situation, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Black Friday weekend, etc, etc. Retailers are price cutting, each in someway has seen hard times or are still experiencing them. The media has made it known this is the hottest weekend in the year for bargains, retailers see the opportunity, everyone jumps on the same band wagon and chaos begins.

 

Every retailer online is grabbing for the pot of gold, it is the last payday before Christmas, more money spent that weekend than any other in the year, you only have one chance in the year to get those sales. 

 

But then come the problems, to many orders to process, so all hands on deck and customer service suffers. Stock starts flying out but some systems have never been tested like this before and the weight starts to add pressure on the company's system. Suddenly, those who didn't have good working stock control feel the pressure, orders cannot be fulfilled, can we get more stock fast? Then it is hilighted by staff on the ground,  this customer ordered 5 items we only have 3 what shall we do. Etc, etc.

 

As is so common in life, the problem is the system, the way we live today, the way we get paid, the way we spend our money. This is fuelled by the media who turn a strong wind into a raging storm!

 

Mistakes were made due to volume of sales, companies inexperience to the demand, retailers and couriers, computer systems that run 51 weeks of the year without to many problems but cannot cope with such high demand for this peak period, stock control!

 

Add to this customer expectations and in fairness it was a problem waiting to happen.

 

If we a have been left down, who shall we point a finger at? The retailer? Our contract is with the retaiker so maybe this should be the case but, I would point no finger be but accept sadly we were caught up in this massive media hyped retail situation where many are partly to blame but no-one totally to blame.

 

The question is, will we learn from what happened or do it again next year, expecting companies to have improved but, not taking into account further growth in Internet sales in the same period, so it will all happen again!

 

Just my thoughts on this issue ;-)

 

Pj

[walkingthedog]

And to make things even worse one of the biggest courier services has closed down. That must have caused huge problems. 

[PJ_model_trains]

It is a very cut throat market WTD

 

The other companies,  like vultures will be ready to pounce and expand, as trade comes back to a moderate level, even with January sales they will come through. The strong will succeed, the weak will suck seed as they say! 

 

PJ

[walkingthedog]

Oh yes PJ I bet the others are hovering about like vultures 

[dynax]

 get a grip stop whining and enjoy life, if it ain't life threatening why worry over something so trivial, you'll get them eventually.

[Yelrow]

Dont forget city link was sold for £1 last year with enormous debts. This was not particularly unexpected, its just badly timed. Sorry PJ, but no fault can be attributed to a supplier, who sends goods on time in good faith, only to see his business suffer by overworked carriers.. This post was not part of Black Friday. Who do you think, caused the huge demand, we did. I have given you the solution, if you want your goods on time, have them tracked. It can be done, just costs. This guy ordered on 10th december, both he and Hornby had every right to expect it to be delivered. None of these couriers went public, until they were sinking  and unable to cope. By that time, Hornby could do nothing. As i was once told by the post office, once your letter is posted, it is technically lost, in the system, until it arrives. They would have no redress. Terrible, of course it is, expected, yes, same every year. Solution, you have already had it. john

[VESPA]

It appears that we are blaming the carrier here when the actual problem is just as much Hornby's. It is Hornby who cannot cope with that massive demand and Hornby who cannot pack so much to fit in with a 3 day delivery. It is Hornby who have under estimated customer demand and Hornby who cannot cope with all the enquiries via phone and email. I don't blame any of the staff packing and answering queries for what seems a never ending and thankless task. It is someone in charge of communications that needs to liven up. When it was obvious that the demand was so great then the first apologetic email was not enough and should have been followed up by others. They left it to the poor guy that moderates this Forum to pacify customers. If they could not send personal emails then they should have posted a large apology on here like the size and importance of the "Advent Calender" and "New for 2015". That may have kept many from barking at the door. As far as the carrier is concerned, they can only deliver what they have. They too need to get on top of their game by not sending emails until the stuff is on the van for delivery. From a delivery point of view my items arrived as the emails stated. Some others had problems.

[Yelrow]

Vespa, thats very  fair,comment to a point, you cant staff a company all the year round for an unknown 3 week demand. Nor can you install extra phone lines, just like that. Its pretty obvious the product had been given to the carrier, and it was they, promising xmas day delivery, knowing they were shut. Your comment about stuff being on van for delivery, simply does not stand up. Ask your postman, what he has in his sack. He will have no idea. The only way to know whats on the delivery van is tracking, and we dont pay for that. Nor does their carrier offer it. All the guy in charge of communication will know is that 1090, packages were given to the carrier. The system then loses them, until they arrive at your door. Of course its poor, twas ever thus. When i am waiting here for a parcel, i ring uk mail , and ask where it is. Sorry,  item  is not tracked, it will arrive, in due course. I would hate to be a toy company in todays market. We expect them to know and do, the impossible. From next week until next december, things will run beautifully. The motto, buy early to avoid disappointment

[VESPA]

Question:- How does the delivery guy know what is on his van and where to go next? Who lists all his deliveries? Posties have a round with letters sorted for that round in walk order. Now he also has smaller parcels with tracking. I can enter atracking number with Royal Mail at it will say en route, delivered to hub, delivered to delivery depot, out for delivery and finally delivered. So who puts the UK Mail items for delivery at their depot? Who then decides what route the driver takes?

I am not trying to be clever here just pointing out how my Royal Mail parcels get delivered with tracking numbers, not my letters. I agree that UK Mail really hav let people down regarding Christmas day delivery, but who would expect that. The post office stopped Christmas day deliveries in 1960

[Yelrow]

Vespa, your not being clever, but you are supporting my case for tracking  If you buy off ebay in uk now for delivery to france, postage has risen to include tracking. When we buy from ebay usa, it is tracked. You are right that on the day of delivery, when its put on the lorry, they know its there, but thats the first time, since despatch. Postie knows his route, but stop him in the street, and ask him, if he has post for you, he has to put down his bag, search for your road bundle, and look. he does not know. Its diabolical, disappointing, especially for kids at xmas, but its not hornbys fault. Thats all i am really saying. john. back to me melting points  

[VESPA]

Don't melt the points Yelrow!  My point is that whoever loads the delivery van must have a list of what's on it. Whoever drives the van must have a route and know where to go. My UK Mail delivery driver had a time of 1400-1500 to deliver my Hornby order so must have a set route. I had to sign for the parcel, so again, tracked. By the way he delivered 6 mins early from the advised time. All very confusing as all my tracked items from whoever are easy to track down from despatch to delivery. It seems UK Mail cannot track properly at times. Maybe it is couldn't care less drivers.

[flytimbo77]

Hi yelrow, sorry I hope you don't mind me interjecting, but I do have to say I don't agree that us, the consumers, can be in any way be to blame for this situation. Yes, Hornby can moan about the couriers all they like, but to quote some advice from Which?:

"So who’s responsible for bad delivery practices? The buck stops with the retailer. This may sound a little harsh, after all it’s the delivery courier who delivers the parcel. But when you buy something online, your contract is with the retailer, not the courier.

It’s the retailer who chooses the courier company – you don’t get a choice. Therefore, if the courier messes up, the retailer is the one who needs to sort it out."

Your suggestion that consumers are to blame for overloading the system simply doesn't make sense to me. Retailers should not advertise products or timescales they can't deliver, simple as that. You can't blame the public for ordering things when they are being advertised for purchase! And if a product is advertised with next day delivery, that becomes part of the product description. If that's not provided, there is a trading standards/trade descriptions issue, and the customer is entitled to a refund.

So I'm sorry but in my mind, the blame lies firmly at Hornby's door for these issues. And they know that. The most important thing is what they do to put it right, and that they learn from mistakes. If Hornby has an issue with their delivery network, that is an argument for them to have later on - the consumers need to be sorted out first.

[Yelrow]

Hi, flytimbo, some interesting points, dont worry about interjection, its blowing 53 mph in france, and it passes the time. I know all about( which.) Its not true about choice. You can choose to pay more, and have your order tracked. The piper calls the tune. Its not my suggestion that we are overloading the system, its the so called experts on internet, backed up by the clamouring press. john lewis, marks, amazon, are all saying the same thing. System overload. Hornby dont have a problem with their delivery network. That across the uk has ground to a halt. Self employed couriers, of which there are thousands are paid a pittance to deliver, and cant make it pay. City link would not have gone to the wall, if  they had not had to cut prices to the bone to compete . If we had not placed any orders, there would not be a problem, so of course its a consumer  generated problem, greed generated by Black Friday, Super Monday, etc. Yes some of this is tongue in cheek, but it is totally unfair to blame retailer for circumstances completely beyond their control. All that will happen is, they will stop Black Friday, and i will be the loser by £110. john

[Yelrow]

ADMIN, well said what happened to my original response, are you holding that as well. john

[PJ_model_trains]

 get a grip stop whining and enjoy life, if it ain't life threatening why worry over something so trivial, you'll get them eventually.

 

Hi dynax

Welcome aboard.

I wonder if your comments would be the same if you worked for City Link?

PJ

[flytimbo77]

Hi Yelrow, glad you didn't mind my butting in with my 2 cents worth :) You made some interesting points as well. I agree to a point that there is a lot of consumer demand, but retailers collect extensive statistics on demand levels at different times of year, and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to tell them that Christmas is going to need extra resources. But hey, I'm not going to criticise Hornby any more - they've responded to Jimyjames and are doing their best to deal with the problem, and I'm sure they will work it out.

I also am not without sympathy for the courier problems, and I can imagine the logistical nightmare that many companies are facing. I think we all understand that things go wrong sometimes, and no one is perfect. Certainly it's important for us customers to be reasonable and realistic in our expectations, but equally we should not lose sight of the technicalities, particularly our rights as consumers. As a customer-focused company, I am sure Hornby would be the first to support this.

As for Black Friday, this is an entirely enterprise led phenomenon - leading retailers, such as Tesco, have created a monster that they can't handle. The result of this exercise was utterly predictable, and the appalling scenes of customers clambering over eachother for televisions is an embodiment of irresponsible trading practices. Tesco (and other retailers) put profits ahead of health and safety, and the emergency services had to deal with the fallout when they no doubt had much more pressing matters to attend to. It is a miracle that no one was seriously hurt (as far as I'm aware). Personally I have absolutely no sympathy with businesses on this matter - it is their job to know their market, and to understand customer demand. If they can't meet that safely and sensibly, then they're doing something wrong.

But anyway, I admire your loyalty and support of Hornby; I'm sure they appreciate such patience and understanding, but they shouldn't take if for granted that everyone will be so accommodating! I have no doubt they will draw strength and wisdom from the supply problems, and emerge a better company for it!

[PJ_model_trains]

Dont forget city link was sold for £1 last year with enormous debts. This was not particularly unexpected, its just badly timed. Sorry PJ, but no fault can be attributed to a supplier, who sends goods on time in good faith, only to see his business suffer by overworked carriers.. This post was not part of Black Friday. Who do you think, caused the huge demand, we did. I have given you the solution, if you want your goods on time, have them tracked. It can be done, just costs. This guy ordered on 10th december, both he and Hornby had every right to expect it to be delivered. None of these couriers went public, until they were sinking  and unable to cope. By that time, Hornby could do nothing. As i was once told by the post office, once your letter is posted, it is technically lost, in the system, until it arrives. They would have no redress. Terrible, of course it is, expected, yes, same every year. Solution, you have already had it. john

 

Dear John

 

The Black Friday/weekend surge created the problem.

 

Hornby have admitted they didn't cope, they extended the 3 day forecast delivery to 5 days and it was impossible to meet. They have admitted they made errors and over sold on items. Credit to them for their honesty.

 

But then you have the courier problems. Hornby use UKMail for their deliveries, there were problems there also but this was masked by not notifying Hornby customers until the night before delivery.

 

I do agree with you regarding tracked courier however, we used ParcelForce, 24 hour, it cost more but was very reliable, it built us custom as a result. ParcelForce also controlled collections and would not collect if they couldn't get through to deliver. We have had a few scarey moments in December, having taken an order on 24 hour delivery to find PF website locked for certain areas, especially Scotland. We were able to contact customers, blame the weather, blame PF maybe but most understood, I do not remember losing an order as a result. The customer was reassued by PF a name to trust and tracking.

 

We didn't experience volumes as Black Friday, but until the TV put companies on contract giving them exclusivity for a period we competed against them and shifted massive stocks. Selling this way did create large peaks in demand but that is retailing, you re-structure, learn and cope better. That is what Hornby will do, that is what couriers are trying to do. No doubt some will learn from PF. Collect to depot, to hub, to local area depot, out, delivered. Minimal handling, when a production line backs up caos occurs.

 

 PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Question:- How does the delivery guy know what is on his van and where to go next? Who lists all his deliveries? Posties have a round with letters sorted for that round in walk order. Now he also has smaller parcels with tracking. I can enter atracking number with Royal Mail at it will say en route, delivered to hub, delivered to delivery depot, out for delivery and finally delivered. So who puts the UK Mail items for delivery at their depot? Who then decides what route the driver takes?

I am not trying to be clever here just pointing out how my Royal Mail parcels get delivered with tracking numbers, not my letters. I agree that UK Mail really hav let people down regarding Christmas day delivery, but who would expect that. The post office stopped Christmas day deliveries in 1960

 

Hi Vespa

 

Things have changed considerably in the last 5 years. I remember when DPD were restructuring, although we didn't use them, they delivered to us almost daily.

 

Drivers were up in arms, they planned the order for deliveries, they felt they knew best. Management had other ideas, and they have proved to work.

 

Parcels go in the van in a structured order, the order the driver has on his sheet to deliver by. This is how they and others, UKMail now do the same, they give you a one hour estimated time slot for delivery.

 

Computers calculate journeys, traffic speeds, etc and dictate not just deliveries but as near as possible delivery times. Yes some can be out but then managents trump card comes in, swings and roundabouts  ;-)

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Question:- How does the delivery guy know what is on his van and where to go next? Who lists all his deliveries? Posties have a round with letters sorted for that round in walk order. Now he also has smaller parcels with tracking. I can enter atracking number with Royal Mail at it will say en route, delivered to hub, delivered to delivery depot, out for delivery and finally delivered. So who puts the UK Mail items for delivery at their depot? Who then decides what route the driver takes?

I am not trying to be clever here just pointing out how my Royal Mail parcels get delivered with tracking numbers, not my letters. I agree that UK Mail really hav let people down regarding Christmas day delivery, but who would expect that. The post office stopped Christmas day deliveries in 1960

 

Hi vespa

 

It is automatic from barcodes

 

Retailer books in order and prints label, driver scans barcode parcel collected computer updated, sms sent to customer, if requested or if authorised by company, at every stage parcels are barcode scanned, only relevant info is sms to customer receiving parcel.

 

As soon as parcel is delivered and signed for the hand held that customer signs, that was used to bar code updates local office, all automatically by satellite.

 

Once a day head office gets stats for each depot usually in small hours of morning.

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

I forgot to add ParcelForce add an extra day to deliveries from Black Friday.

 

This means you cannot book a parcel monday for collection monday, it is booked monday, collected tuesday, delivered wednesday. We did buck the system here though. Clear parcels every day build up relationship withdriver. Book parcels monday for tuesday collection, print bar code labels and add to boxes. When courier collects we gave him next days as well, they went through a day early, we told customer due wednesday but check tracking, thet were chuffed to receive them earlier than expected. Scotland could be problamatic with snow, be they understood and we never had problems

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

I need to sum up I think.

 

Hornby made errors, they have admitted to them, they are a good company, demand was excessive, nothing like what they had ever experienced, they will come out of it stronger and cope better next time.

 

Couriers, similar to what John says, you get what you pay for. These too will learn from mistakes, the problem with smaller couriers they are to frightened to turn orders away, or their computer system is not geared up or able to control Incoming parcels. I tend to think the first option.

 

The problem next year could be, couriers refusing to take parcels and companies being stuck with them. Time will only tell. Customer service will be paramount.

 

Unless a company has its own deliveries, mail order catalogues, everyone has to rely on using couriers, the chain has to pull together and cope to work.

 

PJ