LCDR Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I notice that from time to time the word 'Region' is used when the poster means 'Railway' and vice versa. The term 'Region' came into use when BR was formed in 1948 to replace the old territories belonging to the former 'Railways' which up to a point retained their operating characteristics for quite a long time.Between 1923 and 1947 in the mainland UK there were four main line railways which were privately owned companies owned by shareholders and controlled by a board of directors. These were the Great Western Railway, The London Midland and Scottish Railway. The London and North Eastern Railway and the Southern Railway. These four were known as 'The Big 4'. In addition there were a small number of joint companies owned by two or more of the main line companies who provided locomotives, rolling stock and man-power but who otherwise retained a degree of seperate identity. The best known were the Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway owned by The LMSR and SR jointly, and the Midland & Great Northern Joint Railway owned by the LMSR and LNER. The London lines of the Undeground and the Metropolitan Railway and Metropolitan and District Railway had been 'nationalised', sort of, in 1933 when the London Passenger Transport Board was formed. There were numerous tiny light railways that remained independant too.All these were known as 'Railways'.In 1948 all the railways were nationalised. For a period the regions were set up to mirror the former railways, but the LMSR and LNER lines in Scotland were taken into a new 'Scottish Region' and the former LNER was split in two. The lines north of Doncaster and Leeds up to the Scottish Border became the 'North Eastern Region', and the LNER lines in West Yorkshire and from Doncaster south to London and those in East Anglia became simply Eastern Region. A word of caution, the London Midland Region which were the former LMSR lines up as far as Carlisle, included some former (pre 1923) Midland Railway and Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway lines in Yorkshire remained in London Midland control cheek by jowl with the Eastern Region. Much later (in 1958) there was a massive shake up of the Regions and many London Midland lines in Yorkshire were transferred to the Eastern Region, and some Eastern Region lines (ex Great Central mostly) in the Midlands were transferred to the London Midland. This was a forerunner for major rationalisation and eventual line closures.So when you say 'Region' in this context therefore you are referring to the administative units set up by BR and does not apply before 1948. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Very well explained, LC. In BR days we talked about the Midland, Eastern, Western and Southern Regions. Looking at my Ian Allan Combined Manual Winter 1960/1 I note North Eastern and Scottish Regions, but they were generally too far away from us to take much notice of. I went on a 2 week railway runabout ticket tour in Scotland in 1961 at the age of 17 with a couple of mates, so we did actually "cop" quite a few of their locos. As for the North Eastern, I went on trips to the Leeds and Wakefield areas, but never managed to get any further than that (which I would love to have done, of course, despite the people up there!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 For me the Southern Region was on my doorstep, in fact I could see a mile of it from my parent';s bedroom window. The London Midland Region was the holiday region for our annual fortnight in Keswick. The journey from Euston to Penrith and on to Keswick (and of course back again) was an important part of the holiday.The only bit of the Eastern Region I saw occasionally until I was able to go out train spotting on my own, was the former London Tilbury and Southend line (formerly part of the LMSR but transferered to the Eastern Region at Nationalisation. ) and this retained a LMSR character despite the dark blue station signs. We got there on the Gravesend ferry and looked at trains in Tilbury Riverside station for an hour, before going back across the Thames.From 1961 onwards I was able to go round London using a 'Red Bus Rover' ticket visiting all the main terminals using buses, or if I was rich that weekend a 'Twin Rover' which allowed me to travel on the Underground too. I then discovered Paddington, Liverpool Street, St. Pancras and Kings Cross, with all the variety that were visible there. Personally though I still preferred the London Midland and the Southern Regions, especially the hustle and bustle of Euston and Waterloo.In 1964 I got a week 'Freedom of Wales' ticket and discovered more delights of both the London Midland and Western Regions. A visit to York in winter that year, and a weekend in Perth and Dundee in early 1966 were my first visits to the Scottish Region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Amazing, LC. With a mate of mine I had a week's runabout ticket for Wales at the age of 16 in 1960. We stayed at b&b's overnight in Shrewsbury, Swansea and Cardiff. The first day we went to Holyhead and back along the north coast. Then we went to Aberystwyth, travelled on the Vale of Rheidol Railway owned by BR then, down to Carmarthen, Swansea and Cardiff, returning to Shrewsbury for the last night. Wonderful times. We just loved those Welsh Valleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I suppose we were very lucky in Northampton. 5 miles from our loop to Blisworth on the "Blizzy Flyer" for the main line, only 10 miles to Wellingborough (by train, if necessary, but later on bikes) for the LMR, only 25 miles bikeride to Banbury on the Western Region, and 50 by train to Peterborough on the Eastern Region, although I believe that, as the crow flies, Sandy was a fair bit nearer (but by road). The Southern was the remotest, requiring runs to Bricklayers Arms, Nine Elms in London etc. We used to have school trips at weekends to remoter areas by coach and, later, minbus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81F Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I notice that from time to time the word 'Region' is used when the poster means 'Railway' and vice versa. The term 'Region' came into use when BR was formed in 1948 to replace the old territories belonging to the former 'Railways' which up to a point retained their operating characteristics for quite a long time. Between 1923 and 1947 in the mainland UK there were four main line railways which were privately owned companies owned by shareholders and controlled by a board of directors. These were the Great Western Railway, The London Midland and Scottish Railway. The London and North Eastern Railway and the Southern Railway. These four were known as 'The Big 4'. In addition there were a small number of joint companies owned by two or more of the main line companies who provided locomotives, rolling stock and man-power but who otherwise retained a degree of seperate identity. The best known were the Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway owned by The LMSR and SR jointly, and the Midland & Great Northern Joint Railway owned by the LMSR and LNER. The London lines of the Undeground and the Metropolitan Railway and Metropolitan and District Railway had been 'nationalised', sort of, in 1933 when the London Passenger Transport Board was formed. There were numerous tiny light railways that remained independant too. All these were known as 'Railways'. In 1948 all the railways were nationalised. For a period the regions were set up to mirror the former railways, but the LMSR and LNER lines in Scotland were taken into a new 'Scottish Region' and the former LNER was split in two. The lines north of Doncaster and Leeds up to the Scottish Border became the 'North Eastern Region', and the LNER lines in West Yorkshire and from Doncaster south to London and those in East Anglia became simply Eastern Region. A word of caution, the London Midland Region which were the former LMSR lines up as far as Carlisle, included some former (pre 1923) Midland Railway and Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway lines in Yorkshire remained in London Midland control cheek by jowl with the Eastern Region. Much later (in 1958) there was a massive shake up of the Regions and many London Midland lines in Yorkshire were transferred to the Eastern Region, and some Eastern Region lines (ex Great Central mostly) in the Midlands were transferred to the London Midland. This was a forerunner for major rationalisation and eventual line closures. So when you say 'Region' in this context therefore you are referring to the administative units set up by BR and does not apply before 1948.Also (concerning regional transfers) don't forget the former GWR north of Banbury (ish) that was transferred to the LMR, the Southern west of (Salisbury I think) and the S&DJR which wetre transfered to the WR. In addition there were other LMS inroadfs into the Western's teritory that were also transferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 There were numerous regional boundary changes from 1958 onwards for example most of the Southern west of Salisbury ended up in Western Region in the mid 1960s . Not only were the track and statuions transferred but locomotives and coaches went to the WR who suddenly found themselves in possession of Exmouth Junction's allocation of Merchant Navy and Light Bulleid Pacifics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postman Prat Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 There were numerous regional boundary changes from 1958 onwards for example most of the Southern west of Salisbury ended up in Western Region in the mid 1960s . Not only were the track and statuions transferred but locomotives and coaches went to the WR who suddenly found themselves in possession of Exmouth Junction's allocation of Merchant Navy and Light Bulleid Pacifics! They soon got shot of them, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I suppose we were very lucky in Northampton. 5 miles from our loop to Blisworth on the "Blizzy Flyer" for the main line, only 10 miles to Wellingborough (by train, if necessary, but later on bikes) for the LMR, only 25 miles bikeride to Banbury on the Western Region, and 50 by train to Peterborough on the Eastern Region, although I believe that, as the crow flies, Sandy was a fair bit nearer (but by road). The Southern was the remotest, requiring runs to Bricklayers Arms, Nine Elms in London etc. We used to have school trips at weekends to remoter areas by coach and, later, minbus. I forgot to mention the Great Central (GCR) which crossed the "birdcage" bridge at Rugby, just 20 miles away from us. We had many a bike ride to Woodford Halse as well, perhaps even slightly closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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