Hornby 'Elite' Controller and 'MyLocoSound' sound decoders.

[Peter_L]

Hi. My name is Peter Lucas and I am the CEO of MyLocoSound in Australia. I have only just become aware of this thread.

 

We have a Railmaster-eLink in our test area so we can provide support advice for customers on that combination. However, we do not have an Elite.

 

There have been a couple of past issues with our decoders in relation to RailMaster.

 

First, we found with some motors that a loco going forwards could keep on creeping forwards when brought to a halt. A quick fix for this is to set acceleration and deceleration (CVs 3 and 4) to zero and the problem will go away. Alternatively, customers can return the decoders to our distributor in Norwich who will update the software free of charge and this will permanently fix the problem.

 

We also had some reports of Railmaster writing CVs to our decoders okay but failing to read CVs. Again, we have found the cause and a free update is available for affected decoders.

 

If anyone has any other specific problem, could they please email me at sales@mylocosound.com.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[choralc]

Peter, welcome to the forum.

 

I was wondering whether I should have contacted you earlier about this thread,

 

Andreas

[St1ngr4y]

I fitted a Mylocosound decoder & speaker into the tender of a Hornby Schools. It runs as good as any other chipped loco, the sound is very acceptable once tuned to the motion and for £49 is a bargain. It uses 7 functions, 28 adjustable CV's and has a stay alive capacitor already fitted. My controller is Elite upgraded to V1.04.

Thanks very much, that's very helpful, regards Roger.

Hi Roger,

Have you had any more success with this decoder yet? After a few emails between myself and Peter Lucas of MyLocoSound, I now have a satisfactory "chuff" sound, but I can't get the two whistles (F2 & F3) or the bell(F4) to work at all well, either through Railmaster or using the Elite directly. Yet I took the loco to my friends house and we tried it using his NCE Powercab controller, and it worked absolutely fine.

Ray

[sbroger]

I fitted a Mylocosound decoder & speaker into the tender of a Hornby Schools. It runs as good as any other chipped loco, the sound is very acceptable once tuned to the motion and for £49 is a bargain. It uses 7 functions, 28 adjustable CV's and has a stay alive capacitor already fitted. My controller is Elite upgraded to V1.04.

Thanks very much, that's very helpful, regards Roger.

Hi Roger,

Have you had any more success with this decoder yet? After a few emails between myself and Peter Lucas of MyLocoSound, I now have a satisfactory "chuff" sound, but I can't get the two whistles (F2 & F3) or the bell(F4) to work at all well, either through Railmaster or using the Elite directly. Yet I took the loco to my friends house and we tried it using his NCE Powercab controller, and it worked absolutely fine.

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

[sbroger]

Hi Roger,

Have you had any more success with this decoder yet? After a few emails between myself and Peter Lucas of MyLocoSound, I now have a satisfactory "chuff" sound, but I can't get the two whistles (F2 & F3) or the bell(F4) to work at all well, either through Railmaster or using the Elite directly. Yet I took the loco to my friends house and we tried it using his NCE Powercab controller, and it worked absolutely fine.

Ray

 

Hi Ray,

Yes, i solved my problem by accident! I had an analogue power clip connected to my digital loop, albeit with no wires attached, so that i could switch easily to running analogue locos. Quite by chance i removed it & found that the  MyLocoSound sound decoder responded perfectly to my Hornby Elite, which only has Firmware version 1.0 - i'm waiting for the new batch of Elites to be released later this year before asking Hornby to upgrade it as i've heard rumours that the new ones will be upgraded beyond Firmware 1.41. We(Peter Lucas & me) think that my problem could be the television suppressor fitted in the analogue powerclip.

Regarding your issues, i have no problem with the bell & whistle functions or indeed any others. Recently i've successfully changed some of the CVs though i've found i can't 'read' CVs with my basic Elite. I don't know if it's possible to 'read' the CVs of MyLocoSound decoders, perhaps Peter Lucas can answer that if he sees this posting?

Best regards, Roger.

[Chrissaf]

Roger (sbroger),

In case you are not aware. It is only the Select controller that can only be firmware upgraded by Hornby. The Elite can be firmware upgraded at home by you. The files and instructions you need are here:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/index/cat/9/

[choralc]

I will second that after an initial hiccup I was able to update my Elite and also a friend's.

[St1ngr4y]

I noticed that when using the function buttons on my Elite to activate the sound functions on the MyLocoSound decoder, that in some cases the small function indicator on the Elite display stayed on when a function was pressed and in other cases it only stayed on while being pressed. I hadn't done any configuration of this decoder on the Elite, only on Railmaster. So this morning, I powered up the Elite but not the pc running Railmaster, and the first thing I did was to carry out a Unit Reset on the Elite. I then tried the sound functions of this decoder, and lo and behold, they worked fine, just as they had done yesterday when I took the loco to run using my friend's NCE PowerCab controller.

I am trying to persuade MyLocoSound to talk to Hornby with a view to getting this decoder formally recognised by the Railmaster software.

This has raised a few questions for me as to how the communication of sound functions operates within DCC. When the user uses the controller (Elite in my case) to switch on or off a function, does that cause a packet of information to be sent down the DCC bus? Does that packet just mention the one function, or does it contain two or three bytes where each bit represents the on/off status of every function? Finally, is the loco decoder capable of sending a query the other way to the controller, requesting these bytes containing the status of each function?

Ray

[Howbi]

Hi Roger (sbroger).

With the 'Mylocosound' loco on the rolling road and the Elite in Programming mode I have had no difficulty in Reading and Writing CV's. That was V1.40 then but I downloaded and upgraded the Elite to V1.41 last week without any problems. HB.

[sbroger]

Roger (sbroger),

In case you are not aware. It is only the Select controller that can only be firmware upgraded by Hornby. The Elite can be firmware upgraded at home by you. The files and instructions you need are here:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/index/cat/9/

Thanks for your reply Chris, i did know that & i've tried several times to upgrade my Elite using the above files etc., but without success . I keep getting the same error message(to do with the USB port & size of the data area after identifying & trying to download the relevant driver), which i've discussed with the DCC people at Hornby & they will try to upgrade it for me.

Roger.

 

 

 

[Chrissaf]

Roger,

I thought it was probably something like that. The Elite upgrade is mentioned so often, it would have been odd if its previous references had passed you by.

[St1ngr4y]

Hello

I am still having trouble getting my locosound decoder to operate correctly from the Railmaster,I have emailed Railmaster support 7days ago but no reply yet.

the decoder operates from Elite o/k when not connected to Railmaster

Paul

 

 

 Hi Paul,

Have you had any reply from HRMS about this decoder yet? I sent them a copy of the PDF guide for this decoder several days ago but have not heard anything yet. I understand that Peter Lucas is trying to communicate with HRMS, too.

My main problems are with the sound functions. Some are ok, others work only after a delay of between 5 and 45 seconds, both through Railmaster and when operated directly from my Elite.

Ray

[St1ngr4y]

This post concerns the current "Elite v1.42" thread running in the DCC section also. Tonight I successfully upgraded my Elite to 1.42 using my Windows 7 pc with no problems, except that it rebooted into Classic mode instead of Standard, which was easily remedied. I have noticed since the upgrade that my loco which has the MyLocoSound decoder installed is behaving much better, in that the sound functions seem to respond much more immediately than before. I am still having a small problem switching on and off the F2 "Long" whistle, but I'm sure I can crack that with a bit more trial and error. Is this improvement a co-incidence ? Only HRMS can answer that one ..... :-)

 

Ray

[St1ngr4y]

It is now 15 months since my last post on this thread, but I am still having many problems with the mylocosound (steam) decoder. Several of the sound functions when switched on either do not come on or come on anything up to a minute later, and I have similar delays when switching off a latched function..

I wish someone could explain to me how the logic of DCC packets works especially the difference between latching and non-latching functions. I don't mean how the 0's and 1's are physically transmitted down the track or bus, but rather what the packets contain, how often they are transmitted, can a loco send a packet of info back to the loco (in operational mode rather than programming) etc.

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

I don't know your answers for sure Ray, but let me do some extrapolation from what I do know and see if it helps.

 

For a start, the only way a decoder talks back to the controller is via the Railcom feature, switched on in the decoder at bit 3 of CV29.

 

How many times are instructions sent via packets?  I believe the answer is once - think RM and repeated point switching commands.  The need to repeat the command is because otherwise it is only sent once.  Then think latching functions - I think the second command to turn the function off is exactly the same as the first (means the controller doesn't have to think whether it's sending an on or an off), it just causes the decoder to switch the function state from on to off or off to on.  In this context, the throttle and direction commands will be one offs too - changed throttle just being a request to change to a different speed step with the rate of change set be accel/decel.

 

And just another thought - sound decoders are going to need to be somewhat clever in that, if they are implementing one command, say blow the whistle, and a second packet arrives to do something else, they may have to store that command to implement after the first completes. Having stored it, the decoder then has to retrieve it to action it.  Seems to me, your store and retrieve isn't working to well.

 

Then again, I could be talking complete rubbish.  One thing though, the chances are Chris is busy right now delving through the NMRA standard to find the definitive answer, the reason he's yet to post.

[Chrissaf]

What faith you have in me Fishy.....I do have the NMRA spec bookmarked for reference, but it is so poorly written (written for the benefit of the people who wrote it, rather than for the benefit of people who want to understand it) it is the one occasion where having glanced through it at some length, I still can't see the 'wood for the trees'.

.

However, I think there is great merit in what you wrote. For example latching functions. I think your assessment is spot on. It is exactly the same command to switch it on as it is to switch it off. I could write another A4 page explaining the logic of why I think that is so, but this reply is already too long.

.

Is it not also true that (at least as far as sounds are concerned). If you send a new sound function command whilst a previous one is still playing that the subsequent one is ignored. Horns for example. However, there must be some form of buffering as the motor control packets still seem to be actioned even if a one off sound is playing.

.

The only theory I can come up with to explain Ray's one minute delay. Is that the technology in the Mylocosound decoder is as an analogy monophonic as opposed to polyphonic. What do I mean by this. Think of early musical synthesizers, they could only play one note at a time, not chords. Thus applying this musical analogy to Mylocosound, the decoder has to finish a complete sound file sequence before it can play another one. The one currently playing may be up to a minute long depending where in the current file being played, the second function command was received. One has to bear in mind these decoders are cheap for a sound loco decoder, so the decoder architecture must be primitive to keep costs down. TTS which stands for Twin Track Sound, I would assume fares a little better than Mylocosound, as Twin Track would infer at least two note polyphony. Loksound being the most expensive, being a fully polyphonic decoder.

.

Just a theory........

[St1ngr4y]

I found this under "Frequency of Packet Transmission" in a NMRA specification....

"Packets sent to Digital Decoders should be repeated as frequently as possible, as a packet may have been lost due to 115 noise or poor electrical conductivity between wheels and rails. Power may also be removed from the rails between the Packet End Bit and the Preamble of the next packet to allow for alternative command control formats. A Digital Decoder shall be able to act upon multiple packets addressed to it, provided the time between the packet end bit of the first packet and the packet start bit of the second packet are separated by at least 5 milliseconds"

Also this under "Instruction Packets for Multi Function Digital Decoders - Function Group One Instruction (100)"

"Up to 5 auxiliary functions (functions FL and F1-F4) can be controlled by the Function Group One instruction. Bits 0-3 shall define the value of functions F1-F4 with function F1 being controlled by bit 0 and function F4 being controlled by bit 3. A value of "1" shall indicate that the function is "on" while a value of "0" shall indicate that the function is "off"."

This suggests to me that one packet is used to send the off/on (0/1) status of the first 4 (or 5?) functions. 

As far as "latching" functions are concerned, I use an Elite with RM, but when I use the function facilities in the Elite itself, each page of functions (the Elite can manage them in groups of ten at a time 0-9, 10-19 etc), has along the bottom of the display a row of markers, one for each of the ten functions of this page. When you have a function page displayed e.g. 0-9, and you press a numeric key on the keypad, the equivalent marker is toggled on or off. Now, nowhere do you configure the Elite to tell it which of a particular loco's functions are latching or not. You simply press the number of the function on the keypad. If it is a latching function e.g. safety valve sound, the loco will play that sound continuously until you press that number again to switch it off. During the time that it is playing i.e. between the two presses of the numeric key, the equivalent marker along the bottom of the display will stay on. If you choose a non-latching sound e.g. a short whistle, you press its number on the keypad, the appropriate marker displays on the bottom of the Elite display and (hopefully) the decoder plays the short whistle sound (once). If you then press the same button again, then the marker on the Elite display switches off and again the decoder plays the sound (once more). 

The bottom line I am trying to get to is that the decoder determines which functions are latching and which are not. I believe that the controller will send a different packet for off and on. For non-latching functions, the decoder will execute the function (once) whether the packet says off or on, whereas for a latching function it will obey the content of the packet i.e. switch off or switch on.

My follow on question concerns the role of RM. Are the packets which travel from the pc to the controller the same in content and frequency as those sent to the decoder from the controller i.e. does the Elite act simply as a relay station. What I would like to see is something I've requested in the Desirable Features thread in the RM forum viz. having described a function as latching by including "on/off" in its description, in a RM program command, could the dropdown list of commands include the on and off elements as two separate commands e.g. instead of just having the command "Safety Valve on/off" in the list, could there be "Safety Valve on" and "Safety Valve off" in the list?

Now my brain hurts and I'm off to bed, so hopefully I'll read further comments from you guys tomorrow.

Ray

[96RAF]

Just to add to your confusion Ray, if you press and hold an Elite function for a couple of seconds it reverts from toggled to momentary, so that when you release it it will switch off. 

 

This can be easily demonstrated by TTS diesel F8 (thrash) where you click it on and the engine notches up two until you click it off when the engine reverts to the appropriate speed, but if you click and hold then it will notch up two until you relelase when it will drop back to previous speed. (Please note that thrashing only changes the engine noise not the loco track speed).

 

This is spoken to in the TTS manuals, noting that if you have a control such as the Seelct which does not support this press and hold then you have to press on / press off.

[St1ngr4y]

Just to add to your confusion Ray, if you press and hold an Elite function for a couple of seconds it reverts from toggled to momentary, so that when you release it it will switch off. 

 

This can be easily demonstrated by TTS diesel F8 (thrash) where you click it on and the engine notches up two until you click it off when the engine reverts to the appropriate speed, but if you click and hold then it will notch up two until you relelase when it will drop back to previous speed. (Please note that thrashing only changes the engine noise not the loco track speed).

 

This is spoken to in the TTS manuals, noting that if you have a control such as the Seelct which does not support this press and hold then you have to press on / press off.

Hi Rob,

Are you saying that when you hold the button down for, say, 3 secs, then release, you end up with a different sound result than if you press the button once then 3 secs later press it again? If so, I cannot imagine what and how many packets are sent down the wire for each scenario.... 🤔

Ray

[St1ngr4y]

P.S. what's happened to the EDIT button?

[Chrissaf]

It has been discussed in the forum feedback section. The EDIT button went a few days ago, exactly coinciding with the time-stamp display problem. It has happened before, interestingly last April when the UK clocks went to BST. UK due to go back to GMT at end of this month. I wonder if there is a correlation.

[St1ngr4y]

This morning I made an interesting discovery. I had noticed in the past with the mylocosound decoder, that sometimes when a sound function failed to work immediately, that if I then pressed a different sound function then the first function would start working too. So with a bit of lateral thinking, I thought maybe there was another function I could use immediately after each "sticky" function (in a program) which would maybe kick the first one into life - and for me there is !! The steam mylocosound decoder has F0 lights on/off available, but the loco I have doesn't have lights. So I added F0 lights on/off to the loco definition in RM, and in one of my programs, I inserted a Lights on/off command immediately after each sound command, including the sound on/off commands used to switch the sound on at the start of the program and off at the end. Lo and behold, this seems to have had the desired effect - the sound commands are almost 100% reliable now from within a program.

Ray

[96RAF]

Are you saying that when you hold the button down for, say, 3 secs, then release, you end up with a different sound result than if you press the button once then 3 secs later press it again?

 

Correct Ray - you can change the behaviour of an Elite toggled function by holding that button down.

Extract from Elite manual:

Toggle ON/OFFTo toggle a function On or Off press and release the appropriate numbered key on the key pad, please do not hold the key down. This operation works the same way you would switch on a domestic light in your house.Momentary actionTo momentarily activate a Function press and hold the appropriate numbered key down foras long as you wish. The Function will now activate for as long as you continue to keep the key pressed. The Function will cease as soon as you release the key.

You can spot immediately that this has happened by observing the screen indicator, in toggle mode it is on until you turn it off, in momentary mode it goes off as soon as you release the button.