MattcS Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hi,Hoping someone on here can give me some help.I'm very much new to the world of 'DCC' - with most of my fleet made up of DC trains, but any new ones I purchase I'm aiming to buy DCC (and convert the others later).I have purchased one of the Hornby Bittern Double Tender Specials (R3103) and at the shop had a digital decoder installed - R2849 (Hornby one). I'm only working with a simple Hornby DCC controller (the Select controller). I've also got a Hornby Pendolino DCC, which is running perfectly on my layout and goes pretty fast.However,the Bittern is running really smoothly, but just very slowly, even at full pace. It doesn't seem to be getting past about the speed I'd expect at around half speed. I've had a look at the engine itself, and it all seems to be fine (in terms of the mechanisms/motor etc) - I'm pretty sure that side of it is not a problem. I'm guessing there might be an issue with the DCC decoder and in particul its programming settings.Can someone point me in the direction for some information about possible causes of this sort of issues and possible solutions. As I said, I'm pretty new into the DCC side of it, so any help would be appreciated !CheersMatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineboy Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hi,Hoping someone on here can give me some help.I'm very much new to the world of 'DCC' - with most of my fleet made up of DC trains, but any new ones I purchase I'm aiming to buy DCC (and convert the others later).I have purchased one of the Hornby Bittern Double Tender Specials (R3103) and at the shop had a digital decoder installed - R2849 (Hornby one). I'm only working with a simple Hornby DCC controller (the Select controller). I've also got a Hornby Pendolino DCC, which is running perfectly on my layout and goes pretty fast.However,the Bittern is running really smoothly, but just very slowly, even at full pace. It doesn't seem to be getting past about the speed I'd expect at around half speed. I've had a look at the engine itself, and it all seems to be fine (in terms of the mechanisms/motor etc) - I'm pretty sure that side of it is not a problem. I'm guessing there might be an issue with the DCC decoder and in particul its programming settings.Can someone point me in the direction for some information about possible causes of this sort of issues and possible solutions. As I said, I'm pretty new into the DCC side of it, so any help would be appreciated !CheersMattHi,I am fairly new to this forum but not dcc, i would take the bittern back to the people who fitted the decoder and have them take a look.I would ask them to test both with the decoder first and then without. i fit decoders all the time and they do arrive not working properly out of the box from time to time, if its a good company they will swap the decoder without any hassle. I have 2 bittern double tenders which i fitted the decoders myself and all works fine.Your selct controller even though a starter unit will handle this basic comand without trouble, i have an elite and 2 selects as throttles and they are fine units. I would think its the decoder and not the bittern.Hope this helps Fineboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSwan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I cant remember what you can and can't do with a Select; but if you can check the value in CV5 - that sets the motor maximum voltage. It might be that a lower than normal value has wormed its way in there and is limiting the top speed.Normal circumstances that value would be 63 (the maximum). If it's lower set it to 63 and see what difference it makes.Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You can't alter many CVs or read any CVs with the Select, nor can you write to CV5 on the R8249 because that CV is not supported.I advise taking it back to the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 How slow is slow. Some locos are geared so as not to tear around the track at unrealistic scale speeds. I bet a Pendolino is travelling at a scale speed of about 250 mph on a high setting. Is it very slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.hamilton Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Does this loco have a Shunting Mode set with a function button (sometimes F6). This could have been set with the Select. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Just to keep this to what is possible: - The only CVs supported by the 8249 are, 1,3,4,8,10,17,18 and 29. Those are short ID, accel, decel, reset, back EMF, long ID and the multi-purpose CV 29. And the only functions are the 4 functions on the white, yellow, green and purple wires. - The Select can only program short ID, Accel, Decel, reverse running (in CV29), Consist and do emergency stop. Plus the 9 functions. So Neither can result in programming to stop a loco going at less than maximium speed when the throttle is turned up or set a function to do so. It therefore must be a fault somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattcS Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 I understand what your saying walkingthe dog, and the Pendolino does some decent clicks around the track (Even in full 9 car mode).I'd argue it is very slow - certainly compared to any other loco I have (even something that is definitely geared at a slower speed - such as the Hattons/Heijan Bayer Garratt I have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattcS Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks for the helpful replies everyone. Unfortunately the train would need to go back to the UK (I'm in Australia) - but I will try it with another decoder chip when I do some more research and get some better ideas about what decoders I want to get for the rest of the fleet.In addition, I'll be getting a far superior controller at some stage soon which will definitely help on the programming side of things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrey_reynolds Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have the same problem with Bittern running slowly but on analogue. It seems to run at close to normal speed when running in reverse? I have lubricated the varous parts and it does seem to run a bit better but not as fast as I would have expect. Not sure what to do next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Matt, it doesn't matter how clever your DCC controller is, the only other things it will be able to do on the 8249 are Reset and Back EMF adjustment. You would need a more capable chip too to do more. jeff, welcome to the forums. Although it is the same loco, your DC problem is likely to be quite different to what is being discussed here. You would be better off posting a new topic in the General forum where a lot of people knowledgeable in the are would see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattcS Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have the same problem with Bittern running slowly but on analogue. It seems to run at close to normal speed when running in reverse? I have lubricated the varous parts and it does seem to run a bit better but not as fast as I would have expect. Not sure what to do next?That is interesting as mine runs a lot better in reverse as well - I wouldn't say what I would of thought is normal speed, but certainly more quickly than going forward. Sounds like it might just be a lowly geared model perhaps not designed to run that quick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattcS Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Matt, it doesn't matter how clever your DCC controller is, the only other things it will be able to do on the 8249 are Reset and Back EMF adjustment. You would need a more capable chip too to do more. Thanks Fish - that is the conclusion I've come to. I have several trains that I want to upgrade to DCC, so will be doing some good research to work out what chips to go for (and at the same time will be upgrading to a far better setup for DCC control than the Hornby controller). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattcS Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Sorry to drag up an old topic, but some interesting findings in regards to this. I've finally got some time to myself after a hectic year, and have therefore sought to try and solve the Bittern slow running problem. I also managed to damage the cable that connects the motor to the chip in the tender, so had to pull the engine apart to solve that. Upon inspection, I found some terrible quality soldering where the motor was wired in, with one wire broken (I've moved house recently and haven't run the engine for several months) completely away from the solder, and the other holding on just. I've done repairs to the soldering and other wiring, and also replaced the DCC chip (it had a cheap one in, put a DCC concepts Zen in instead). Also have invested in a decent DCC controller, so looking forward to testing it out soon to see if the original problem has been solved (and indeed if my repair efforts are reasonable). Admin edit: Please don't swear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percybigun Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I had the same problem with flying scot TTS (virtually identical underneath to your bittern)i changed cv 150 from 0 to 1 and it fixed the problem, but on that setting it was a bit too quick and trigger happy. A week later i switched it back to 0 and it now runs perfect, with full top speed available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percybigun Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I also changed cv 124 to 6, so i dont know which of the above fixed the problem, or maybe both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanQ4 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Hi PercyI hope the OP hasn't been waiting for you to answer his question which was written on 23 Jan 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler down under Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 You can't go wrong with the DCC concepts decoder, I use them in all my locos they are far superior to the Hornby equivalent and they are $50 cheaper then a Safire decoder with the same capabilities and an 8 pin harness, I've never had a problem with them other then the other night I tried to run a loco on dc and it wouldn't run so I'm guessing they come factory set with analog running switched off, I haven't investigated fully yet though, they might not run at all on analog. Anyone know? But apart from that they have been a top little decoder, their accessory decoders are great value too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Some decoders do not comply with NMRA/EN specs for analogue running so as its not a mandatory the easy way out is not to offer it, this applies to some controllers as well as decoders. Look in CV29 to see if it will accept a change for DC enable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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