ChrisSurrey Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have seen various posts on the earlier model, the ADS8 but nothing on this newer version which I am considering buying (together with its stablemate the ADS2FX. The question is will they work on Railmaster using the ADS8 decoder identity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have seen various posts on the earlier model, the ADS8 but nothing on this newer version which I am considering buying (together with its stablemate the ADS2FX. The question is will they work on Railmaster using the ADS8 decoder identity? Chris,I've just installed two ADS8fx's under RM and they work very well. Did you mean the stablemate 8fx rather than 2fx? I've just replied to a post in general under "What are you doing this weekend" with pictures of the installation but pictures need approving so it may not show for a while. The decoder is programmable on the main but I disconnected the first to programme the second [they simply have two wires connected to your bus circuit]. At first I didn't appreciate you have to press the save button when setting up for each output, you cannot do several and then save. The decoder happily fires pairs of points as in cross-overs, I used 24/0.2 wires which went into the decoder fixings without trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi Chris, welcome to the forums. Short answer is is yes they will. You don't actually use RM to program them. All you have to do is switch the switch on them to learn, throw the point you want them to control, switch back to run and it's done. Repeat 7 more times. So it wouldn't actually matter if they weren't in the dropdown list at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPJunk Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I set up the points in RM layout design first using the DCC Concepts ASD8F as the decoder then saved and went to the RM program and done the same as Fishmanoz above definitely easier to set up the ADS-8fx than the Hornby decoder . I received my second one today and will be setting up another 8 sets of points over the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisSurrey Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thanks everyone very helpful. I will go ahead and purchase. Great Forum by the way. It was reading through the varios posts that led me to buy the e-link in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hi everyone,I have just bought 3 ADSFX2 decoders, which I intend to use to power 3 Shinohara scissors crossovers. These crossovers have live frogs, and it was convenient for me to use 4 side-mounted point motors on each crossover. 2 point motors would be controlled by each port of an ADSFX2, and I wanted to use the frog-polarity feature of the ADSFX2. I have the first crossover all set up and after a bit of trial-and-error, I managed to wire up the frog polarities the correct way around, and it works fine with the ADFSX2 and RM. However, I have noticed a feature and I was wondering if anyone else has. First I need to mention that I am using an Elite with RM, and the main DCC outputs of the Elite power an accessory decoder bus, but I also have a power booster which I use to power the track bus. I have noticed that when I power everything on, I immediately get a red light on the power booster, indicating a short circuit on the track bus. Without doing anything on the tracks, I can then load up RM and allow it to got through its startup procedure of setting all of the points and signals, including the ports of the adsfx2. Once this has been done, I can then reset the power booster and the short circuit has disappeared.The only theory I have for this is that the adfsx2 has two miniature latching relays on board, because when the Elite powers up, there is a definite click audible from the adsfx2. I thought maybe the adfsx2 itself is firing this relay in one particular direction when the power comes on, but if this didn't match the direction the points had been left set at the end of the previous session, then this would cause a short. But I have tried leaving the points set one way on switch off, then the other way on switch off, but in each case I get the short on powering back on.Has anyone any experience of this?Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Ray, can I suggest you contact Richard at DCC Concepts about this. His email is on his website. If you are right, it would seem to be a bad way for the decoders to operate. Also, I don't see that your running through a booster is significant, apart from its ensuring that your entire layout doesn't short out on startup, only the accessory bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ray, can I suggest you contact Richard at DCC Concepts about this. His email is on his website. If you are right, it would seem to be a bad way for the decoders to operate. Also, I don't see that your running through a booster is significant, apart from its ensuring that your entire layout doesn't short out on startup, only the accessory bus.Hi Fishy,I emailed DCC Concepts, and I received this reply today:- Hi Ray,Yes these are relays and at this point the units dont have inbuilt memory to keep the relays in place after power is turned off to the unit so they switch back to a default position when power is cycled. We are aware of this and will be looking into it. It isn't a show-stopper, but it is just incovenient that I have to reset my power booster at each power up. Those people who don't have separate track and accessory buses like I do, may have more difficulty in resetting everything at power up, because the short circuit could prevent RM or manual startup operation of the decoders.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Looks like you need a shutdown routine to put everything into the default position for the relays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Looks like you need a shutdown routine to put everything into the default position for the relays?Exactly my thinking, Fishy. By trial and error I've found a shutdown position for the 1st Scissors crossover which doesn't cause a short on power-up. It should be simple enough to do the same for the other two, and produce a program to fire the six ports as a "shutdown" procedure.Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Hi just bought one of these decoders to run with railmaster connected up as per instructions but cant get it to program. I set the switch to learn went to railmaster and clicked on the point which i want to operate put the switch back to run and nothing. what im i doing wrong could someone tell me step by step what i should be doing to set this decoder up this is the first layout i have built so im a bit of a newbi thanks paul.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_ Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 When programming my ADS2FX decoders (I have 4 of them), after setting to learn mode, I always switched the point both left and right before setting the switch back to run mode. Never had a problem after doing that. One question, you have given the point a point number in RailMaster haven't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 yes i went into railmaster and set up the points numbered 1-8 but when i set my first output on the ads8fx to learn i then go back to railmaster and tap the screen to move the point i want to program then go back to the decoder and put the switch to run but when i try to move the point nothing happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Paul, when you say"I set the switch to learn went to railmaster and clicked on the point which i want to operate put the switch back to run and nothing."This may be stating the obvious, but you haven't confirmed in your query as to whether you have completed this following configuration stage, so documented below just in case you haven't..EDIT: Nick's reply and your own follow up reply posted whilst I was typing this one, so didn't see them. Left my reply intact as originally written..Have you assigned the DCC point address you want to use, to the point icon in Railmaster. Right click the point operate button (typically the red dot) and fill in the DCC address details in the box that opens. The track plan needs to be opened in 'set up and edit' mode before the icon becomes 'right clickable'. Then save and close plan and restart RM to ensure the plan loads. If the plan doesn't load on start up, have you selected it as the 'default plan' in the 'System Settings' window../media/tinymce_upload/71be33392272689d3e33c0902ed87d7b.jpg.Controller = ADecoder Port (shown circled in red) = enter the point address you want to use, each point port in your track plan needs to be unique unless you want them to operate together, like in a two point cross-over for example.Type = leave as R8247, no need to change this setting.Reverse Polarity = normally left unchecked unless point throws in wrong direction.Routes = is optional, leave blank unless you specifically want to set up some routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Hi yes i have gone into track plan and gave each point its own number 1 thru to 8 set the control as A set the type from the drop down menu as ads8f and set the left or right setting as needed for startup then saved my track plan on starting up railmaster it loades my track plan with all the points numbered 1-8 i set the switch to learn on the decoder port go to my track plan click the point i wish to operate left/right then go to decoder and put the switch back to run try the point and nothing happens just a click from the decoder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 If the decoder is clicking, then that would infer that your programming is OK and that there is a problem with the wiring between the decoder and the point motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hi Guys still no luck with this decoder i have checked and double checked all the wiring and still cant get a point to fire i have even went as far as wiring up an old cdu with momentary on-off-on switch to each point and fire the points with it no problem Im ready to give up the ghost with this decoder think i have wasted £60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 You haven't wasted a penny, go to the DCC Concepts website and email Richard form the email there. Explain exactly what you have done and he will sort you out, second to none after sales service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Is there a maximum length of wire from the decoder to the point mine are about 6-7ft long so would that weaken the burst of power from the ads8fx. I read somewhere about keeping the wiring as short as possilbe 😢 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Paul, If you are using eLink then ignore this post..You say that you are using RailMaster, but what controller? If it is an Elite, what mode does it start up in. 'Standard' or 'Classic'?..If 'Classic' there will be an offset in which point port fires. The Elite needs to start up in 'Standard' mode to be 100% compatible with RailMaster..You said, the decoder clicked. Maybe the decoder port is operating, but not the one your point motor is wired to and testing. This would be the case if the Elite starts up in 'Classic' mode. i.e in Classic mode you fire port 1 in RM, but it is point 4 that fires on the decoder..Also, I'm stating the obvious, but just for confirmation. I take it, you are performing ALL your configuration and testing activities with the decoder connected to your controller TRACK A&B output. You do not use the 'Programming A&B' output with DCC Concepts decoder products. You never specifically stated where your decoder was connected in your posts..EDIT: 6-7 ft is not particularly long and shouldn't be an issue unless you are using very thin wire. You should be using wire with about 0.75-1.0mm2 cross sectional area. 0.75mm2 = 24/0.2mm wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Yeah using E-Link wire i have is 16/0.2 wire so could that be an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 16/0.2mm over 6 ft shouldn't be an issue. Even if it was, you would still expect to see and/or hear or feel (finger on point) an attempt to move the point motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul.b Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Funny you should say that just tried that with my finger on the other end of each tie bar and i can feel the point tie bar twitch just does`nt seem to be enough to move it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 When you performed the successful test with an old external CDU. What was the power input source? was it for example 16 volts AC..Most forum members report that the CDU in the ADS product is (for a DCC Decoder) quite powerful, but even so, I know from experience (R8247's not ADS8FX) that the power of an integrated decoder CDU is limited by the voltage derived from the DCC signal. The voltage that can be created is thus limited to a relatively low value, about 15 volts DC. There are some decoders on the market that get over this lack of power issue by supporting an external power input (up to 24 volts) to actually power the CDU and fire the point, but controlled via DCC. In other words, these type of decoders have dual power capability and can provide a very powerful CDU function..Forum member RDS (I think it was RDS) uses this dual power type of decoder. He had problems trying to fire his points just from the DCC signal derived voltage. His problems were instantly resolved once he added a secondary auxiliary 19 volt DC Laptop power supply to the solution to provide the additional CDU firing voltage. Unfortunately, the ADS decoder doesn't support a dual power feature..What point motors are you using? Hornby, Peco, Seep etc.....surface mount or under-board. If the point motor is trying to fire (you say you can feel it trying when you gently touch it). Then I would suspect that (if surface mounted) it is over tightened and/or miss-aligned. If under board, then it is miss-aligned.The external CDU you are using for testing is thus providing significantly more oomphh to overcome mounting and alignment resistance and giving the false impression that all is well with the point motor mounting. All this is, of course, theory as I do not have the benefit of looking over your shoulder and watching what you are doing..Note: the Hornby R8243 surface mount motors seem to be the most problematic of the various brands and types and are particularly prone to having problems if the mounting screws are over tightened. The screws should be just tight enough to hold it in place, but loose enough to allow some slight movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hi, i have these decoders, and surface mounted point motors, As chris points out, screw them down hard, and points dont fire. What i do, is wire up the motors, fix them down without attaching to the poits, and test. If they fire, fixing is ok. If not, you know why. I have only ever had one of these fail, and they sent me a new 2 point one, by return. They really are very reliable. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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