walkingthedog Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You do not need to have any knowledge at all about how a PC works to use one and that goes for most things in life. Keep things simple. I try to follow the workings of running a DCC layout but wow, that to me was at a different level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 WTD, sure I could have just stopped my reply at the end of the steps needed to change CV29 to correct the loco direction issue reported. It would have been a lot shorter and looked less complicated at first glance by a 'flyby' reader..Everything after the sub title "Explanation" was somewhat superfluous and could have been left out. I just thought that some optional detail might be found informative to people who were interested and wanted to know more. EDIT. Didn't appreciate how much 'flak' it would draw. I sometimes wish other peoples responses were a little bit more 'wordy' I quite often get left not fully understanding the points made or at worst misinterpreting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Shame you gave that answer away before I got up today, Chrissaf. I could have said that it was indeed 76. I used to programme games in machine code on the old Atari years ago, even managing to sell 20,000 copies of it throughout Europe via Mastertronic. When sorting binary with 8 bit bytes I found this sort of simple diagramatic explanation very useful: Bit Values 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 l l l l l l l l l Decimal Values 128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1 Insert 0 or 1 in columns . 0 = switched off. 1 = switched on. Add up all decimal values shown under every column with 1 in it. This process can be reversed to calculate an 8 bit byte from a decimal value up to 255 as well. Sorry I couldn't set out a properly bordered table. Hope this helps some newcomers ro calculating CVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Just had a look at manual Page 71 as suggested by HFM. Knowing that feature existed would have drastically cut my original reply to the bone text wise. Not only does it simplify adjusting CV29 to a few check boxes it also indicates both the decimal and binary number for anybody who is interested to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Graskie, at least somebody appreciated (as well as the OP) the effort I went to....There was a time many moons ago when I could do 8 bit binary / decimal conversions in my head. You used an Atari, I used a Lynx 48K (short lived production run due to poor sales). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Well, it's a fairly simple concept to understand, isn't it? Once mastered, hesitant people can perhaps find it much easier to look at and understand CVs, which certainly helped me because of my previous life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Graskie, When I was writing my original response I did seriously consider drawing a table similar to the one in your post with proper borders etc. Eventually, I settled on the listed format I eventually used as I would have created the table as an image and that of course would involve my post being held back for a moderation check. I agree entirely, that the simple 'look up' table you documented is a very easy way to decribe decimal / binary number conversion and probably would have cut down on the amount of text I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choralc Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Ummmm, the double-click CV29 and check or uncheck boxes is in the Pro version but not the basic veersion? Why isn't it in the basic version when it would be such a big help to basic people like me??? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I think you'll find that the additional feedback comments made later were that it was in the basic non-pro version as well. If you look at the RM manual page 71 you'll see that it is NOT marked in the title as a (Pro pack only) feature. If you look at the next page 72 you'll see an example of a (Pro pack only) feature indication..This assumes that you are looking at a post (Pro pack) manual version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Just having my morning coffee and am amazed at this thread and its complication, and that coming from somebody who writes many long replies. TWD almost obviated the need for all this in his first reply, if only he'd gone a step further as he did on page 2 and directly referenced the CV29 Calculator in Articles on the 2mm.org.uk site In his first post on page 1 before Chris got going. Now I don't wish to be critical of the thought that people need to understand bits and bytes to understand CVs, particularly CV29, because they do need to understand. But there is more content out there on this than you can jump over because understanding it is essential. Much better to give a link than to try to explain from scratch on this one in my opinion. And the 2mm link is one of the better ones, not only explaining but doing the calculations for you. It is concise, well structured and so easy to understand. Nothing more needed to be said. And one piece of even simpler advice to those who have just fitted their own decoder (not that we were told this was the case first up). When you test run on first installation and before you put the body back, if it runs backwards, swap the Orange and grey wires and save learning about CVs for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazah Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hi allAs I am responsable for this discussion can I just add for a newbie getting to grips with all this stuff is not easy, the clear precise explanation from Chrissaf has made a massive difference to my enjoyment of two locos today.the tech stuff behind the scenes can wait for another day sometimes but to learn is to grow and we should never stop trying to learn new stuff every day, but sometimes just getting the damn loco to go In the direction you wanted is all you want.i am not fortunate enough to be the tech guru or able to convert 30 year old motors would not even know we're to start, have come back to modelling after a very long time away and things have changed dramatically since I was a lad, so people on sites like theses who,offers support and help need to be applauded as some do look down there noses at us newbies now and then.everyones comments thoughts are much appreciated especially Chrissaf as he has saved me a frustrating day and has allowed me to enjoy my layout today SO THANK YOU CHRISSAF.please keep the help coming some of us need more than others!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Thankyou Gazah for your supportive comments it is much appreciated. By now Fishmanoz is aware of my writing style as we have exchanged ideas and comments on previous occasions. I don’t think he was being unduly critical, his comments was one of his typical observational replies. It is true that my reputation to date has been to write ‘war and peace’ type replies (and for some reason that does seem to get up the nose of some forum contributors), but that is because I assume everyone is a novice, else why are they asking the question in the first place. It is also true to say that the question being asked, in-itself can give a clue to the previous experience of the poster. I try as much as I can to put myself in the shoes of the person asking the question and write the kind of detailed reply that I would like to see if I was the person asking that question. If it’s too detailed then one filters out the excess, but if it’s too brief then one is left confused and wanting more, and I for one would have felt as if I had 'short changed' the question poster. Yes, I could have just replied with a short simple reply that said you need to modify the value of CV29 with a link to that calculator, but would you have been any the wiser, probably not as evidenced by your last posted statements, particularly as the referenced external website although explaining CV29, does not necessarily put it in the context of changing it within RM. You’ve already stated that my reply, although long winded, has been more than helpful and probably went beyond your expectations. And for that I thank you, because I think it proves my point far better than I could have expressed myself in my own defence. There is a place for detail, even if it does duplicate other sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 My point is there is no need to duplicate. Give the link then a brief description of how to read and write CV29 only in RM. No need to read the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Chrissaf - your extended writing style reminds me of a quip from ages past when people used pens and paper to cummunicate with each other:"Sorry this is such a long letter, but I didn't have time to write a short one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 RAF do you recall my "But RAF.....you would spoil my enjoyment.....I like writing 'war and peace'." reply to you on a previous thread. Well as you can see, I wasn't fibbing. I think people will just have to accept that this is my writing style and ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 RAF do you recall my "But RAF.....you would spoil my enjoyment.....I like writing 'war and peace'." reply to you on a previous thread. Well as you can see, I wasn't fibbing. I think people will just have to accept that this is my writing style and ignore it.Each to our own.Mine is generally jibberish anyhow regardless of length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choralc Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ahhhh. I kept double-clicking in the CV box and only getting a blue question mark which opened an information window rather than the Value cell. Now I see what you are talking about. Something to play with and if you don't like it reset the decoder to default. Good. Thank you for clarifying this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ahhhh. I kept double-clicking in the CV box and only getting a blue question mark which opened an information window rather than the Value cell. Now I see what you are talking about. Something to play with and if you don't like it reset the decoder to default. Good. Thank you for clarifying this point. Yes, not obvious is it? Unless you are one of those who read manuals of course.Posted very much tongue in cheek before I upset anyone <two smiley faces> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choralc Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (-: :-) Haha, I read but don't understand. I do and it becomes learned ... until the next time I need to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teedoubleudee Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Well I've just been reading the manual, I know, I know!Because I'm searching for the answer to a different problem I have, and discovered on page 36 that you can reverse the direction settings for an individual loco in the loco set up screen by the press of an arrow. So no need for CV29!.This is definitely for PRO users only though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I only have Am-Pack and CV29 double click works in that, bringing up the tick table, after putting up a dialogue box about binary stuff and square brackets, etc.If you get carried away and double double click you have to ask it to read the CVs again to get back into the tick table scenario.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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