Alan K Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I am posting this under Railmaster but appreciate it could be a wider issue. I have over a dozen locomotives, a mix of various rtr and kit built including a handful of sound locos.with ESU Loksound decoders. All operate satisfactorily with my RM.and E-Link and are eminently controllable. However I have just acquired a Bachmann Warship with DCC onboard (oem ESU chip) which is virtually uncontrollable as it runs at full speed almost throughout the speed range being set in RM. Switching on shunt slows it down just a bit. Alterations to the acceleration and decelleration CVs do have an effect but not on the speed it reaches, only on how long it takes (as you would expect). I have read of similar issues with Hornby Select and other Bachmann decoders but not with Railmaster/E-link. Has anybody come across this issue and hopefully resolved it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Generally Alan when a DCC loco goes do-lally it is because its decoder is set for DCC and DC control. Knock the DC control bit off in CV29 (bags of info on the forum about how to do this from within RM) and see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 If turning off DC operation in CV29 does not solve the problem, then it could be the capacitors that are causing the problem. See the section on Mark Gurries website.https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/decoder-motor-drive/motor-capacitors/bachmann-engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 If turning off DC operation in CV29 does not solve the problem, then it could be the capacitors that are causing the problem. See the section on Mark Gurries website.https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/decoder-motor-drive/motor-capacitors/bachmann-engines Another link that didn't post as a link. Let me tryhttps://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/decoder-motor-drive/motor-capacitors/bachmann-enginesAll I did was stripe your link poliss, copy it and paste it into my reply followed by a space.And yes it works.Edit - having read stuff on the link it reminded me that BEMF (usually CV10) can also be a problem so keep that in mind if CV29 DC fix doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well stripe me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ah, it's the space afterwards that makes links work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Theres always room for a space... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thanks for the advice. However I have clipped the capacitors (I always do) and turned off DC in CV29 - neither made any difference. CV10 is not supported according to the supplied instructions. Incidentally RM identifies the chip as Bachmann 4 function and ESU as the manufacturer but then reduces the available CVs to a subset of the already limited range documented in the Bachmann instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 RM only bases what the chip is by reference to the manuf and id CVs and then applies the associated CV set in its database. I have a TTS decoder that it doesn't recognise and RM just plants a set of CVs that are unlike the true set so I can't fiddle with anything on that chip using RM. I get the standard '..if you have a datasheet for this decoder, blah, blah..' dialogue,which I have referred back to RM to several times but still it remains a bogey in their system. I suspect your decoder is being seen as something else in their database and so loaded into RM with the wrong CV set. Report it back to them with a decoder ref number if possible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Do you have another controller you could test it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Do you have another controller you could test it on? Good idea poliss.People have reported locos working as advertised with their Elite but playing up in RM, so worth a try for investigative purposes - so if you don't have one do you know a man/club/shop who does, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 RM only bases what the chip is by reference to the manuf and id CVs and then applies the associated CV set in its database. I have a TTS decoder that it doesn't recognise and RM just plants a set of CVs that are unlike the true set so I can't fiddle with anything on that chip using RM. I get the standard '..if you have a datasheet for this decoder, blah, blah..' dialogue,which I have referred back to RM to several times but still it remains a bogey in their system. I suspect your decoder is being seen as something else in their database and so loaded into RM with the wrong CV set. Report it back to them with a decoder ref number if possible..The description that RM comes up with seems to be appropriate - it is a Bachmann 4 function made by ESU. There is nothing printed on the actual chip other than ver. 1.3. RM doesn't seem to block changes to CVs that it deems unused. It won't read them but I set a value in one and it verified the update. Reading CVs omitting CVs 7 and 8 and therefore leaving CV names at the NMRA defaults for a generic decoder showed the actual values in the CVs that RM showed as zero and not used when it had "identified" the chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Do you have another controller you could test it on? Good idea poliss.People have reported locos working as advertised with their Elite but playing up in RM, so worth a try for investigative purposes - so if you don't have one do you know a man/club/shop who does, etc.I don't have another controller unfortunately nor easy access to one as I would have tried that as an early step in the diagnosis. A shop might be a possibility of all else fails. I did invoke the help of a shop when RM wouldn't support higher numbered functions which worked fine on his Gaugemaster controller but then I had bought the chip from him!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Do you have another controller you could test it on? Good idea poliss.People have reported locos working as advertised with their Elite but playing up in RM, so worth a try for investigative purposes - so if you don't have one do you know a man/club/shop who does, etc.I don't have another controller unfortunately nor easy access to one as I would have tried that as an early step in the diagnosis. A shop might be a possibility of all else fails. I did invoke the help of a shop when RM wouldn't support higher numbered functions which worked fine on his Gaugemaster controller but then I had bought the chip from him!! Sounds like a plan Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Another possibility is adjustment to CVs 53 and 54, although this is usually to get smooth running, not response to throttle. But check out the Bachmann website which has instructions on how to go about it. Won't do any harm. I'd also be checking that 128 speed steps are turned on in bit 1 of CV29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Another possibility is adjustment to CVs 53 and 54, although this is usually to get smooth running, not response to throttle. But check out the Bachmann website which has instructions on how to go about it. Won't do any harm. I'd also be checking that 128 speed steps are turned on in bit 1 of CV29.Checked CV29 bit 1 when I turned off DC. Looked at Bachmann website but could only find suggested settings for decoders in their steam locos which seem to be those made by TCS rather than ESU. Other than that there is a suggestion of changing by just 1 for motors with large flywheels - not the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Alan I just found this table which may help ID your decoder better:http://www.jmri.org/xml/decoderIndex.xmlIts fairly comprehensive so a long trawl to find ESU, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Alan I just found this table which may help ID your decoder better:http://www.jmri.org/xml/decoderIndex.xmlIts fairly comprehensive so a long trawl to find ESU, etc.That link doesn't work at the moment (nor jmri.org itself). JMRI software is on sourceforge.net and that site says it is mostly not available so may be tied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Alan I just found this table which may help ID your decoder better:http://www.jmri.org/xml/decoderIndex.xmlIts fairly comprehensive so a long trawl to find ESU, etc.That link doesn't work at the moment (nor jmri.org itself). JMRI software is on sourceforge.net and that site says it is mostly not available so may be tied. AlanThe link appears to be OK, but what it fetches back is duff.I got the link from post #2 here where there is discussion about decoder manufactuers IDs, etc:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96151-decoder-identification-by-manufaturer-id-ver/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I've tried altering the two Back EMF CVs to match some setting suggested by Bachmann for some of their steam locos. These are comepletely different to those set by default on the chip which match the instructions. This has made no real difference except that if the shunt function is enabled the loco does become more controllable - closer to what it should be in normal use. I then turned off Back EMF altogether and amazingly it ran much better in terms of control at normal speeds but the loco didn't move at all until RM showed an indicated speed of around 35mph and top speed was very fast indeed - like running on DC with maximum voltage applied.I've sent a help request from RM - hopefully they will have some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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