RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I am aware of the ability to fire 2 points by connecting them to the same decoder output but in one situation, I may need to fire 3 points at once. I understand that one point can be made to fire another in RailMaster but can that still be the case if the first point is already firing as part of a pair. I am using the ESU switchpilot decoder and the Hornby solenoid point motors.The reason for this requirement is because I have used up all the outputs on my 4 decoders and do not intend buying another one just for one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi Dave,If you change the phrase to "In Railmaster one PORT can be made to fire another PORT" does that answer your question?Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 ... If you change the phrase to "In Railmaster one PORT can be made to fire another PORT" does that answer your question?...Hi RayHmm thanks, I haven't thought this through properly! I was overlooking the fact that the point still needs to be connected to a decoder port.New question then: Can I connect 3 points to the same decoder port? Likely answer: Probably not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think unfortunately you are correct and you will need to buy another decoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Why not just try it and see what happens...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Why not just try it and see what happens...... On second thoughts - I think I will retract that statement. Third motor means more current, more current has a small risk of damaging decoder. On the other hand, as documented on the other thread of yours, the ESU does have output current protection built in. Do you remember the posted extract from section 9.3 of the manual. It talked about setting a current limiting CV value for Peco points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Thanks everyone. On further inspection, I have realised that the point in question is moving from a different place on the layout where it was intended to connect to it's own Port.In which case I will need to set up RM to use one Port to fire another, where the first Port is already firing 2 Points, so in effect it is 3 Points firing from 2 Ports, at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi Dave You wouldn't necessarily have to buy another decoder, if you have one with a spare port. As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) you can add two points to one decoder port without any problems other than possible a very slight delay. So you would only need two ports using the same address. I was fortunate, I purchased 3x ADS-8 decoders so had spare ports, although I have several doubles I put each in to separate ports but give them the same address so they fired together. PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi PJI have 28 Points working off 4 Decoders with 12 of the 16 available Ports operating 2 Points each. So that leaves 4 Ports for the last 4 Points that are operated separately. I will post a picture tomorrow of my slightly revised layout, taken from the Anyrail software on the 'Lets see your layouts thread', Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I doubt a standard Hornby acc decoder would be able to fire 3 x points simultaneously without the aid of external circuitry and a CDU, even given the RM 'cascade' - point A fires point B - scenario as the OP has a limited number of physical acc decoder ports to play with.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 I doubt a standard Hornby acc decoder would be able to fire 3 x points simultaneously ...I guess its no different but I am using the ESU switchpilot decoder and the Hornby solenoid point motors.However, I do have (see above) a spare decoder Port, so I will use RM to fire the 3rd Point from one of the other 2 Points. I hope it puts a short delay in between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OssieB Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 In my experience of using a ESU Switchpilot, bought when Hornby's R8247 decoder was unavailable, is that it struggled to operate two Hornby solenoid surface mounted points from one port. I had to rearrange my wiring so that the two point situation was wired to a Hornby decoder and only single points were operated by the ESU. The Hornby decoder had no problem in operating the same two points. I have four crossovers and one passing loop, all using two points from one port on Hornby decoders.I hope RDS you have better experience with the ESU than I have had. I also find they do not recharge as quiickly as the Hornby decoders and I have had to rearrange the order of point firing on startup so that all the points on the ESU are well spaced out in the sequence to make certain that they all reset correctly.I have also tried, as an experiment, to connect three points to one port of a Horrnby and it did work, but I would not wish to do this on a layout. There may be reliability problems as well as the damage possibility mentioned in an earlier post.BarryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Barry O,In the experience you have outlined above using the ESU, did you deploy the dedicated external power supply input or just use the DCC track voltage supply option. If you used an external power supply, what were its specifications i.e voltage / current etc. Knowing this info would go a long way towards providing RDS with some alternative solutions to suggest. If you don't know the voltage / current specs off hand, then maybe just a brief description of what type it was,where it was sourced from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 This is getting interestinger and interestinger. A couple of thoughts: The 8247 really should be designed to be railway modeller-proof. By that I mean it should survive at least a momentary short circuit on its output and should desirably trip if a lengthy short circuit. Admin, any comment on that from the Hornby design team? If the Switchpilot doesn't have a CDU, why might you have to delay repeated firings? I suppose it might be that any circuit designed to fire a solenoid will have some capacitative component, even if not enough to constitute a CDU, so will have some recovery time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 ... I hope RDS you have better experience with the ESU than I have had ...Thanks Barry for sharing your experiences.I will be using the R8014 Solenoid Point Motors, mounted under the board. I have experimented with 2 Motors from one Port on the ESU and they worked every time.I had originally intended to use Surface Mounted so I bought one to try. It seemed very weak in terms of moving the Point but I was not too surprised because they are tiny compared to the R8014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 ... did you deploy the dedicated external power supply input or just use the DCC track voltage supply option ...Hi ChrisDuring my tests, I took my power from the Track Connector on my Elite and it fired 2 Points in the same Port or one from all 4 Ports one after the other, without problems. I did wonder about using the Aux Output terminal though for my final solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OssieB Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 @ChrissafIn answer to your query regarding power supply to the ESU, I can confirm that I am only using the DCC track power supply. @FishmanozAre you certain that the ESU does not have an internal CDU? It certainly appears to have one from the way it performs. When I fire one point after the other from the layout in RM, the second point only operates on the second backup firing of RM for this point. With the Hornby decoders, I can do the same exercise and the second point operates on the first RM firing, even when the first point is a crossover (ie two points). @RDS Please to know that you have had success with two points from one port. It may be the under mounted points do not take as much current as the the surface mounted ones or the difference in power supply - I supply my layout, at the moment, through an eLink powered by a 4amp supply unit. As Chris suggests, it may be better to have a dedicated external power supply to the ESU decoders.I am adding two more points to my layout and several semaphore signals and as all my decoder ports are utilised, I will be needing an additional decoder. I am thinking that I will buy an eight port decoder, to replace the ESU and power the new points, leaving two ports spare for future needs. I will then use the ESU for any signals that are not linked to points. BarryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 No, I'm not certain Barry, the manual doesn't seem to say from my reading, but it is so complicated I may have missed it. My info comes from another poster on the forum and I can't remember who or in what thread he said it, although his logic for saying it appeared good at the time. But your logic on recovery time sounds like a CDU recharging for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ_model_trains Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hi PJI have 28 Points working off 4 Decoders with 12 of the 16 available Ports operating 2 Points each. So that leaves 4 Ports for the last 4 Points that are operated separately. I will post a picture tomorrow of my slightly revised layout, taken from the Anyrail software on the 'Lets see your layouts thread', I noticed the amount of double points that could work to one decoder port and did count them up, hence the comments... well thought out layout ;o) I look forward to seeing your pictures PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 ... I noticed the amount of double points that could work to one decoder port and did count them up, hence the comments... I look forward to seeing your picturesThat was the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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