Problem Getting Locos To Run

[HornbyKiwi]

Hi Guys (and Girls)

 

I've recently purchased 3 locos second-hand from an auction site but am having difficulty getting them to run.  They have all come fitted with decoders, two TCS and one Digitrax I believe.  The seller informed me that he has altered the CV values on each loco to adjust acceleration, etc.

 

For those that may recall I am new to DCC, having recently purchased an eLink.  My experience thus far is fairly minimal, and you may also recall I had some difficulty getting the eLink/Railmaster combo set up and working successfully.

 

Therefore, my first port of call was to ensure that I had everything set up correctly (my "layout" is temporary at the moment) in terms of the eLink by way of running one of my other locos.  Having established the circuit was correctly established, I placed each loco in turn on the track and attempted to get them running.  Although the front and rear lights are on (all diesels), nothing else is happening by way of actual movement.

 

I believe I have the correct DCC ID's loaded into Railmaster.  I placed all 3 locos onto the programming track and read the first 10 CV values of each to see the ID's were correct with the information the seller provided.  I could see the altered values for acceleration as he mentioned.

 

So, I'm now seeking advice as to the next step to try.  I find it unlikely that all 3 locos should be faulty in some way.  The seller indicated the locos had been in storage for some years but had had minimal running before that.  They are all in superb condition, I've had the body shells off all three and DCC decoder fittings looks like a professional job.  I'm fairly certain my issues here are down to my own novice status with the eLink/Railmaster.

 

Anyhow, I'm thinking my next step should be to reset the decoders in the locos back to factory default and see if I can get them to run from there.  Does this sound like the right course of action, or does someone have a better idea to troubleshoot my problem?

 

All advice greatly appreciated!

 

HornbyKiwi.

[96RAF]

I would reset each loco decoder in turn CV8 to value 8, given you have a controller that can do this) and re-address to your choice of ID. If you have RM Pro-Pack I believe this can be done by the single press of an icon. If like me you are Am-Pack then its down to doing it in the loco setup / CV read screen.

This will put each decoder back to basic settings where everything should at least work. Once working at this level you can then fiddle with them to your own liking.

[HornbyKiwi]

Thanks RAF96, I will give this a try and see how I get on.

 

HornbyKiwi.

[Fishmanoz]

As has been said recently, the locos may not be programmed with a short ID in CV1 but a long ID in CVs 18/19 if I remember rightly.  This will be determined by whether bit 5 is set in CV29 or not.  Read CV29 and if its value is 32 or more, subtract 32 from it and write it back.  Now the ID will certainly be the value in CV1.

 

If this is all too complicated, then just reset as RAF has suggested, then they will certainly be on 03.

[HornbyKiwi]

Thanks Fishmanoz, I will take a look at CV29 and see what the value is, it will be good practice for me.  I will probably run with RAF96's suggestion though, as most of your reply appeared to be written in Wookie.  ;)

 

Yes, I have a lot to learn yet .....

 

HornbyKiwi.

[Fishmanoz]

Yes HK, an unfortunate fact about DCC is that learning Wookie helps sometimes.

[96RAF]

If you have read the first 10 CVs then its no more difficult (just takes longer) to read all the CVs and see what you get .

 

Or even just ask for CV29 - CV29 in RM, then when you want to change CV29 stuff double click the value box  and a table will pop up for you to tick choices then write them to the decoder using the pencil icon at the bottom of RM screen.

[HornbyKiwi]

Thanks RAF96, I was making a little joke with Fishmanoz, I found reading the CV's to be relatively straight-forward.  I would have read more than the first ten on each loco but for the time it would have taken.  The part I found more interesting/confusing was the concept of short and long ID's.

 

The info provided by the seller of the locos to me indicated he had numbered them according to their running numbers ... well, the last three digits thereof.  I placed those numbers into Railmaster with no joy.  It was then I plonked the locos onto the programming track to have a look at the CV values.  In the case of two out of the three locos, CV1 read as 003.  I found this to be perplexing as the seller had not indicated he re-set the locos to 003.

 

In light of what I've learnt from Fishmanoz this morning, perhaps the locos are taking their ID from the other CV value further up the table.  Anyway, I won't know more until I can do some more testing this evening after dinner.  It still seems like re-seting the decoders to default might be the best way to go though.  I don't have the experience of either of you gentlemen as yet (or the patience probably!).  I want to get this resolved as quickly as possible so I can let the seller know the locos still function and I can leave him some positive feedback on the auction website.

 

As an aside to this, do you guys have any thoughts on the ... how do I word this ... the "compatability" or "seamlessness" of moving locos from one DCC setup to another?  I know the standard for DCC is supposed to be exactly that, a standard.  But I have been wondering if there are general operating "quirks" whereby something programmed by controller brand "x" occasionally has trouble operating with controller brand "y" or that kind of thing?

 

HornbyKiwi.

[Rog RJ]

There are online calculators you can use to help write and read CVs and addresses.  See this http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm  

 

PS  Many people use the last 4 digits for the loco addresses.

[Graskie]

I can see another hat going, together with corks, Fishy. I think you'll find that 4 digit IDs are usually found in CVs 17 and 18, not the 18 and 19 guessed at by you. I'm afraid, by the looks of it, you didn't remember rightly (yet again;-) (smirk!)

[HornbyKiwi]

Thanks Rog, that is a really useful link.  I'm sure it shows my ignorance but I had no previous idea about the short and long addresses.  I thought we just fire a number into CV1 and away we go.  There's obviously a fair bit of homework I need to do to get up to speed.

 

Thanks to all who have contributed to my "education" thus far.  I will post to this thread once I've properly polled the decoders and see what's actually going on.  Hopefully I will have better success this evening now I'm armed with the info you've all provided.

 

HornbyKiwi.

[Graskie]

There are online calculators you can use to help write and read CVs and addresses.  See this http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm  

 

PS  Many people use the last 4 digits for the loco addresses.

 

 

As stated before, Rog, with 5 digit BR numbers on the real steam locos I prefer to select the 1st (region), 3rd, 4th and 5th numbers. I don't think there is so much of a chance of IDs clashing that way if you have millions of locos like what I do :-)

[Graskie]

Repeat error posting because 1st one didn't seem to go.

 

[Graskie]

Repeat error posting because system did not seem to work properly second time.

[Graskie]

Oh for a message delete facility. With one I wouldn't appear to be such a pratt, which, many can vouch, I am definitely not!

[96RAF]

Re the short ID being 003 when the long ID is something else. This is perfectly possible.

It was recently covered on here that both IDs are held in the decoder memory but you can only use either/or by switching short/extended ID on/off in CV29 or via Elite Config menu.

Also if you intend to use long ID and you are programming from Elite you have to switch extended ID on before trying to give it that ID.

[96RAF]

Just re-read the OP and you don't have Elite only eLink and RM.

I think using Sigma icon in RM to enter a long ID is Pro-Pack only (may be wrong), but if so you can enter long ID direct via CV17 and 18 values determined using the calculator on the 2mm web site tagged earlier. Its a bit down the page from the CV29 calculator.

[Chrissaf]

Graskie,

I too have seen a forum glitch that gives the impression that after clicking 'send' the post has not been accepted. It just sits there with the text box open. It is such a temptation to click 'send' button again and again. I found a 'workaround' that works for me. I 'copy' my post text (just in case I need to 'paste' in a repost). I then click the back button to go back to previous page. Then reselect the post that I think I have just posted a reply to. 99.9% of the time, I find my post was indeed accepted and showing as expected.

 

Moral of the story is check first if post reply is present before sending again.

[96RAF]

I always click on the topic header at the top of the page and refresh the post as it appears it hasnt done anything when in fact it has. I think there needs to be an automatic page refresh after hitting Reply same as happens when you Edit and Save.

 

Edit: - Now how odd is that - it worked fine this time

[HornbyKiwi]

Again, my sincere thanks to all who have assisted me with the problem and offered advice and tuition.

 

Just to bring everyone up to speed, armed with your suggestions I have managed to get all three locos running successfully last evening.  In the end I tried all the ideas offered ... I reset one decoder to factory default, I polled a second at CV29 to discover a reading of 038 and deducted 32 from that as Fishmanoz suggested.  The third I believe I left as-is, just polled the CV's to learn the correct 4-digit ID from the previous owner, entered that into RM and had an immediate response.

 

So, very pleased with the outcomes.  The three locos, two Class 66's and a Class 60, ran perfectly once I knew a little more about what I was doing.  Thanks to you, Gentlemen, so again my appreciation to you all for helping me here.

 

HornbyKiwi.

[Graskie]

Great news, HK. Now you can play with them.

[Fishmanoz]

Wow HK, all that clever speculation from us actually meant something!  Then it wasn't really speculation was it, just logical deduction from our extensive knowledge of DCC decoder operation, even if I do say so on behalf of ourselves.

 

You might just keep in mind another thing about a decoder CV29 set to 6 - you have DC running enabled.  If you are never going to run your locos on a DC layout, it is worth subtracting another 4 to turn this off.  That will eliminate any chance of DC runaway at some later time.

[HornbyKiwi]

Thanks Guys,

 

Obviously still have a huge amount to learn about DCC, but very pleased to have got those locos running successfully with your assistance and knowledge.  It was important to me that I got them tested ASAP as they are second-hand and I needed to let the seller know I was happy with my purchase from him.

 

Fishmanoz, thanks for the additional tip concerning the DC setting.  I knew from the seller that he had DC running switched on as it was mentioned in his auction blurb when I bought the locos.  I will switch it off as it's unlikely I will ever need to run them on a DC circuit.

 

HornbyKiwi